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Title: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: AlexMartin on July 02, 2009, 01:48:13 AM Villain is a fish, 26/14/2 or something. He got stacked a moment ago, timebank calling with the second nutflush on the river, so i think we can assume he is weaktight. He has played me slightly odd all night, with some unusual stuff. He stacked me on another table earlier slowplaying 101010 on 1084ss9s4h and check calling all my barrels. He views me as out of line, chatty idiot.
His line is kinda odd as there aint that many diamonds in his coldcalling range, plus that he then doesnt double barrel the turn with. Sets and 2 pair would normally bet the turn from this player type for protection and his river raise looks a 5hit load like a jack but then i doubt he bets the flop with a jack. Im confused. ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 543061682 ***** NL $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 01, 23:02:29 GMT 2009 Table Oxygen 86 6-max (Real Money) Seat 6 is the button Total number of active players : 6 Seat 1: JammyJenny ( $246.05 ) Seat 2: kingbil ( $175 ) Seat 3: cemasa ( $55.90 ) Seat 4: TNico ( $105.95 ) Seat 5: dska ( $71 ) Seat 6: martha1989 ( $461.06 ) JammyJenny posts small blind [$1] kingbil posts big blind [$2] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to JammyJenny [ Js, Qh ] cemasa calls [$2] TNico folds dska calls [$2] martha1989 folds JammyJenny raises to [$10] kingbil calls [$8] cemasa folds dska calls [$8] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, Jd, 7s ] JammyJenny checks kingbil bets [$21] dska folds JammyJenny calls [$21] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ] JammyJenny checks kingbil checks ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] JammyJenny bets [$55.50] kingbil raises to [$120.25] Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: George2Loose on July 02, 2009, 01:56:15 AM Smells of a set to me.
If he's as weak as you say he's not value raising worse on the river imo. He bets the flop on a very dangerous board- set. I disagree that he would lead turn for protection- he probably thought ohmygodshittwodiamondsontheflopnowathirdontheturnumusthaveadiamonddrawCHECK! Then when u lead river he thinks GIN! I caught my donkey now he shoves all imo of course :D Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: AlexMartin on July 02, 2009, 02:00:08 AM i doubt hes ever flatting AA pre here.
meh, cobinatronics mean he can only have 77 then? suuuuuurellllly we cant fold if we is only scared of 1 hand? right? right? Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: boldie on July 02, 2009, 07:40:57 AM Why did you bet the river?
I am guessing the answer to that question would determine whether this is a call or not, no? I snap here as played. I don't understand your pre and post flop line though. Raise pre from the SB and then check call the flop when you hit it? (or can represent hitting it anyways) Why not check raise or lead out on the flop? Or were you planning on checkraising a blank turn? Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: EvilPie on July 02, 2009, 08:23:48 AM Does he possibly flat AJ pre.
He's got position on the chatty idiot so may think if he hits you are going to be betting in to him against a hand with good showdown value. I can't see him shoving worse except possibly J10 How about hands like Kd Qd or 9d Td. Are they in his calling range from the button against a raiser who he thinks he can stack off? This looks like a good spot to be value raising a flush. Ok you could walk in to a house but anyone who's just got the J is struggling to let go. Tbh I don't really like the river bet. Against this oppo what are you hoping to see when he calls? Hands that call that we beat are AK, AQ and J10. AK is doubtful as he would surely 3 bet pre. Hands that stack us are 77, AJ and KQ blue. If he never bluffs then you have to pass. Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: outragous76 on July 02, 2009, 10:15:23 AM Smells of a set to me. If he's as weak as you say he's not value raising worse on the river imo. He bets the flop on a very dangerous board- set. I disagree that he would lead turn for protection- he probably thought ohmygodshittwodiamondsontheflopnowathirdontheturnumusthaveadiamonddrawCHECK! Then when u lead river he thinks GIN! I caught my donkey now he shoves all imo of course :D I lol'd I just cant see what u are beating other than AQ. Even a retard understands that his A7 just got conterfeited. That play is so rarely a bluff (like you say) and if it isnt then u only beat bad aces. The board is flushed and paired! - fold i think Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: RichardL on July 02, 2009, 12:04:05 PM Villain is a fish, 26/14/2 or something. He got stacked a moment ago, timebank calling with the second nutflush on the river, so i think we can assume he is weaktight. He has played me slightly odd all night, with some unusual stuff. He stacked me on another table earlier slowplaying 101010 on 1084ss9s4h and check calling all my barrels. He views me as out of line, chatty idiot. His line is kinda odd as there aint that many diamonds in his coldcalling range, plus that he then doesnt double barrel the turn with. Sets and 2 pair would normally bet the turn from this player type for protection and his river raise looks a 5hit load like a jack but then i doubt he bets the flop with a jack. Im confused. ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 543061682 ***** NL $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 01, 23:02:29 GMT 2009 Table Oxygen 86 6-max (Real Money) Seat 6 is the button Total number of active players : 6 Seat 1: JammyJenny ( $246.05 ) Seat 2: kingbil ( $175 ) Seat 3: cemasa ( $55.90 ) Seat 4: TNico ( $105.95 ) Seat 5: dska ( $71 ) Seat 6: martha1989 ( $461.06 ) JammyJenny posts small blind [$1] kingbil posts big blind [$2] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to JammyJenny [ Js, Qh ] cemasa calls [$2] TNico folds dska calls [$2] martha1989 folds JammyJenny raises to [$10] kingbil calls [$8] cemasa folds dska calls [$8] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, Jd, 7s ] JammyJenny checks kingbil bets [$21] dska folds JammyJenny calls [$21] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ] JammyJenny checks kingbil checks ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] JammyJenny bets [$55.50] kingbil raises to [$120.25] Why check call this flop? Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: AlexMartin on July 02, 2009, 12:23:44 PM Villain is a fish, 26/14/2 or something. He got stacked a moment ago, timebank calling with the second nutflush on the river, so i think we can assume he is weaktight. He has played me slightly odd all night, with some unusual stuff. He stacked me on another table earlier slowplaying 101010 on 1084ss9s4h and check calling all my barrels. He views me as out of line, chatty idiot. His line is kinda odd as there aint that many diamonds in his coldcalling range, plus that he then doesnt double barrel the turn with. Sets and 2 pair would normally bet the turn from this player type for protection and his river raise looks a 5hit load like a jack but then i doubt he bets the flop with a jack. Im confused. ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 543061682 ***** NL $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 01, 23:02:29 GMT 2009 Table Oxygen 86 6-max (Real Money) Seat 6 is the button Total number of active players : 6 Seat 1: JammyJenny ( $246.05 ) Seat 2: kingbil ( $175 ) Seat 3: cemasa ( $55.90 ) Seat 4: TNico ( $105.95 ) Seat 5: dska ( $71 ) Seat 6: martha1989 ( $461.06 ) JammyJenny posts small blind [$1] kingbil posts big blind [$2] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to JammyJenny [ Js, Qh ] cemasa calls [$2] TNico folds dska calls [$2] martha1989 folds JammyJenny raises to [$10] kingbil calls [$8] cemasa folds dska calls [$8] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, Jd, 7s ] JammyJenny checks kingbil bets [$21] dska folds JammyJenny calls [$21] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ] JammyJenny checks kingbil checks ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] JammyJenny bets [$55.50] kingbil raises to [$120.25] Why check call this flop? Didnt fancy cbetting 3way and bloating it oop, fancy i have the best hand a fair chunk of the time and worse will bet (inc bad shorty), worse hands struggle to call me if i cbet this 3way. Why did you bet the river? I am guessing the answer to that question would determine whether this is a call or not, no? For value, once it goes check/check and i hit gin i have to bet as i expect a weak passive to check back too many weak top pairs I snap here as played. Yeah, i wanted to, but bitter experience has taught me they are never bluffing when a fish raises you on the river I don't understand your pre and post flop line though. Raise pre from the SB and then check call the flop when you hit it? (or can represent hitting it anyways) Why not check raise or lead out on the flop? Or were you planning on checkraising a blank turn? Pre was borderline spew and not standard, had decided to log a loco session. Check call flop is unusual, but with 2 weak passives its hard for me to get called by worse if i bet and i have a decent hand remember. Betting is bad as a bluff/thin value because when i cbet this pot 3way my range is strengthened, which means villains calling range is stronger too (so i cant be betting for thin value). If i am called to win the pot i will have to try and move a fish off weak top pair (when 1 fish only has $70) on the turn, which is spew. Short of it is, i cant play every hand i get like its the nuts, checkraising marginal hands that have GOOD SHOWDOWN STRENGTH is not optimal imo. Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: RichardL on July 02, 2009, 01:04:02 PM Villain is a fish, 26/14/2 or something. He got stacked a moment ago, timebank calling with the second nutflush on the river, so i think we can assume he is weaktight. He has played me slightly odd all night, with some unusual stuff. He stacked me on another table earlier slowplaying 101010 on 1084ss9s4h and check calling all my barrels. He views me as out of line, chatty idiot. His line is kinda odd as there aint that many diamonds in his coldcalling range, plus that he then doesnt double barrel the turn with. Sets and 2 pair would normally bet the turn from this player type for protection and his river raise looks a 5hit load like a jack but then i doubt he bets the flop with a jack. Im confused. ***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 543061682 ***** NL $1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 01, 23:02:29 GMT 2009 Table Oxygen 86 6-max (Real Money) Seat 6 is the button Total number of active players : 6 Seat 1: JammyJenny ( $246.05 ) Seat 2: kingbil ( $175 ) Seat 3: cemasa ( $55.90 ) Seat 4: TNico ( $105.95 ) Seat 5: dska ( $71 ) Seat 6: martha1989 ( $461.06 ) JammyJenny posts small blind [$1] kingbil posts big blind [$2] ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to JammyJenny [ Js, Qh ] cemasa calls [$2] TNico folds dska calls [$2] martha1989 folds JammyJenny raises to [$10] kingbil calls [$8] cemasa folds dska calls [$8] ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, Jd, 7s ] JammyJenny checks kingbil bets [$21] dska folds JammyJenny calls [$21] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ] JammyJenny checks kingbil checks ** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] JammyJenny bets [$55.50] kingbil raises to [$120.25] Why check call this flop? Didnt fancy cbetting 3way and bloating it oop, fancy i have the best hand a fair chunk of the time and worse will bet (inc bad shorty), worse hands struggle to call me if i cbet this 3way. Why did you bet the river? I am guessing the answer to that question would determine whether this is a call or not, no? For value, once it goes check/check and i hit gin i have to bet as i expect a weak passive to check back too many weak top pairs I snap here as played. Yeah, i wanted to, but bitter experience has taught me they are never bluffing when a fish raises you on the river I don't understand your pre and post flop line though. Raise pre from the SB and then check call the flop when you hit it? (or can represent hitting it anyways) Why not check raise or lead out on the flop? Or were you planning on checkraising a blank turn? Pre was borderline spew and not standard, had decided to log a loco session. Check call flop is unusual, but with 2 weak passives its hard for me to get called by worse if i bet and i have a decent hand remember. Betting is bad as a bluff/thin value because when i cbet this pot 3way my range is strengthened, which means villains calling range is stronger too (so i cant be betting for thin value). If i am called to win the pot i will have to try and move a fish off weak top pair (when 1 fish only has $70) on the turn, which is spew. Short of it is, i cant play every hand i get like its the nuts, checkraising marginal hands that have GOOD SHOWDOWN STRENGTH is not optimal imo. I think you should bet/fold the flop, or alternatively check/flop. Pretty unlikely anyone is going to take a stab at this flop, espicially fish/bad regs. I know that betting or raising for info is generally seen as retarded logic, but in this case I think it is a valid reason for leading the flop Also if you bet and J/Q comes then your hand is diguised and you can fire again and get paid. Whereas if you check call, and then jack or q comes then you struggle to win the maximum ever You give away the strength of your hand check/calling, and get value towned to death, even by 26/14 donks You give him chance to suck out for free You cant put him on a range by check calling Jumbled thoughts, but all valid, collectively making check calling bad here i think, even though i see alot of people do it Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: daviebhoy on July 02, 2009, 02:40:04 PM I bet flop. We are hardly desperate to show down our hand there. By betting we can represent the ace/flush, get better hands to fold and be able to define opponents hand better. As played it is either a great bluff-raise on river or you are beat. You say he is never bluffing - really ?
I think your check/call - check turn line makes the bluff-raise more likely as you played the hand so weakly. You could have avoided this difficult spot by just betting the flop though. Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: dousche on July 02, 2009, 02:52:02 PM Hands that call that we beat are AK, AQ and J10. AK is doubtful as he would surely 3 bet pre. Hands that stack us are 77, AJ and KQ blue. i dont agree with these ranges ak and aq almost definitely dont raise the end and rarely limp/call pre id add KJ and more diamond connectors to the list of hands we're behind too overall i think its a fold, and i agree with george that 77 is pretty likely Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: UpTheMariners on July 10, 2009, 01:38:14 AM id call his river raise.
i think betting or checking the river depends on the players river agro% (if agro check raise 2.25x v decent bet). i prob wouldnt raise pre v 2 limpers. checking the flop is fine v bad players Title: Re: I know hes never bluffing, but he could be value raising worse. sigh. Post by: AlexMartin on July 10, 2009, 12:13:37 PM id call his river raise. i think betting or checking the river depends on the players river agro% (if agro check raise 2.25x v decent bet). i prob wouldnt raise pre v 2 limpers. checking the flop is fine v bad players coolio. I made a very rare fold. |