blonde poker forum

Ok so played some plo tonight and had interesting hand. 3/6 on ipoker. Villain 1 seems competent, iv been pretty nitty and we are 1100 effective against villain 1 and villain 2 has 500. Villain 2 is pretty dumb/bad.

Villain 1 opens utg, i call button w  Tc Ts 9d 8d, villain 2 flats from sb.

Flop  Jh 7h  8c. Pot is 70 odd, villain 1 bets 45, villain 2 calls, we call (mistake#1?)

Turn is 10c. Villain 1 checks, villain 2 bets 200 or so, action on us. Best play is to?

Name of villain pls Alex, I play quite a lot on ipoker and know the regs of 3/6 quite well.

Edit: Don't think it matters too much who villain is, you have to repot the flop.

I like the flat on the flop in fact i would say that it's pretty much standard.

I'm probably just calling this turn bet too although it's starting to get a bit awkward now as we could be second-best but  folding does not really seem like an option and raising could prove rather reckless, tricky in the extreme imo.

The complete opposite for me. I think flatting the flop is a big big mistake.

We want to get value from flush draws etc rather than giving cheap cards to opponents who are playing OOP. If the turn bricks we win a nice pot and if it doesn't its hard for them to bluff us because our hand can include flush draws etc too.

The way we've played it I hate life on the turn.

I always pot this on the flop especially 3 way. There's not many safe cards for us and if we do see a safe card we lose value as flush draws have no equity to get it in against us any more.

If we flat now then bet a blank turn we're not even getting action from sets because we've just told oppos what we've got.

Pot the flop and we get action from big flush draws and sets. Check and we only get action from hands that beat us.

If you pot and they pass no problem just wait for the next opportunity.

I really don't see the point slow playing the nuts in omaha especially 3 way. Someone always catches up and if they don't you don't get paid anyway.

But we are the button, if we just call the flop they are still in the dark and may well bet into us on a blank turn.

Obviously on this turn it's all gone a bit smelly and given us problems, but not all bad ones.

Alex your such a CHOO CHOO in PLO!!

Flop is certainly a mistake i really hate it. I'm repotting here 99.99% less than 200BB deep. I know the arguments people don't, you can end up getting it in splitting and being freerolled etc but imo you're not deep enough to worry about that and missing out on too much long term EV. In this situation you've also given yourself a disgusting decision never mind on the turn you need to have a plan for the river too.
If i've 0.01%'d it i'm throwing up and passing turn, hate to murder any more money in hands i've butchered already. There are several issues here are we thinking of calling cos we think our hand is good, are we calling to see what happens on river with regard to whether there is a bet again or if it pairs up/board changes. We and almost certainly someone else in the hand are really blocking pair ups and JJ is a possible hand for either anyway, we also have a reasonable chance that we've let q9 get there. We need a plan not only for the river what are we doing if Villain 1 now checks shoves when we flat? All extra reasons in my eye to complete the butchering of the hand and pass turn.

btw.

As played i now just curl up in to a ball and wonder why I slow played the nuts and could now well be drawing to the last remaining 10.

I'm not passing but I'm hating it. I just call now and pray for a showdown as cheap as possible but don't expect it for 1 second.

No point raising now because you're turning the hand in to a bluff. Passing just doesn't work for me either.

Tough spot mate. From my limited experience you're probably behind. If you make a house you could still be behind.

Looking forward to the rest of the hand.

What happens when you flat and villain 1 check shoves

Just read Dave's post. You know what he's probably right.

Having butchered the hand why throw any more at it?

Just give it up and wait for a better opportunity. It's PLO, they will come sonner rather than later.

I curl up in to an even tighter ball and have a little cry whilst timing out.

I dislike the flat pre..raise or get out of the way please.
I dislike the flat on the flop..very not nice at all...on the turn, yeah I reckon Dave is right...might as well just get out of the way now as the river should cost you plenty.

So you are saying that the correct play here is to either three-bet or fold pre. ???

tt98 isnt that good in omaha
i think flatting pre is fine

I don't mind it, i get it in now though.

yeah, I much prefer that over flatting

I prefer the flat pre to a raise. If we get action following a raise pre it's likely to be in the form of a 4 bet. Do we want to be calling a 4 bet of around $300 with this hand?

Oppos are oop against a 3 bet. They are passing a wide range here losing us value with a good hand with position. They are re raising AAxx putting us in a bit of a spot albeit with their hand face up.

Flatting controls the pot until our hand our hand hits. That's when we should be boosting it as much as possible imo, not pre.

I've played similar hands this way quite a lot and they seem to go wrong more often than right.

I find I'm kicking myself because I slow played the nuts then got crazy once I'd let people catch up on the cheap.

Are you getting it in now thinking you're still ahead? Surely if we're still ahead we want to give them another chance to take a stab? If we are ahead now we're unlikely to fall behind on the river and most hands that we're beating just pass. Even flush draws lose interest now that the board has paired.

I can't understand the merit of potting now?

There's already $70ish in the pot, and anyone who can fold here should take up knitting instead.

Lol at my dodgy maths.

4 bet would be to around $300. This means that if we 3 bet we have to call another $230 ish in to a pot of $400 ish.

I don't like Boldie's raise pre plan and hate the fold.

Can't see any other option but call pre.

Errm it hasn't paired, we have the 2nd nuts and a set which is why i want to ramp this pot up.

I don't really agree that this is a good hand though it's not awful but noone has raised yet Why not take the initiative now and raise it up a bit..giving yourself position with a half decent hand.

I'll get my coat

 ;marks;

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I don't really agree that this is a good hand though it's not awful but noone has raised yet
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[ ] Boldie has read the OP

In PLO we should be calling in position with a lot of hands - this being one of them so I have no idea what boldie is talking about.

The only reason to flat the flop is to underrep our hand so I don't really understand why we think we are beat now. Player 2 can just be trying to pick up the pot here as we both look weak. I don't see much wrong with flatting turn aswell and see what player 1 does. He likely folds anyway and stacks are such that we can get chips in against player 2 on river. If player 1 check/raises then we are in a pickle but we are getting all the money in probably needing the board to pair on the river. I don't really see any benefit to raising the turn.

I agree we need to re-pot the flop though. I can't fold this hand on the turn the way it has been played.

I didnt particularly want to get 200bb in on the flop as i think we rarely get it in in gr8 shape and are normally against a freeroll or sick combo, raising advertises my hand and i am 95% sure that villain 1 has a big piece. Turn i was kinda torn but figured i have to get it in to protect against 2 flushdraws with what is likely the best hand at least some of the time. Seems consensus from ploers is that not raising flop was a mistake. my bad. I raised and villain 1 jammed, i didnt get there against QJ109 with hearts. Villain 2 had bottom set plus the nut flushdraw. 

In which case even if you repot the flop villain is still going to jam.

Great hand for analysis mate.

Tbh I probably do exactly the same as you on the turn. I think it's a mistake and it's one I'm trying to get out of but if I had the nuts and now I've got 2nd nuts + a house redraw I still convince myself I'm good.

I'm still only learning PLO myself but I seem to find that every time it looks like I could be behind I am.

Looks like Dave read it about right. Ok you've got your redraw to the house but everyone has blockers leaving you drawing almost dead.

Out of interest if you don't want to get it in on the flop because of freerollers why get it in on the turn when you could even be behind?

Not criticising this as like I say I probs do the same but I'm just curious.

True Ralph but don't you think this is just a cooler?

If we play hands like TTJQ and hit the nuts what else are we supposed to do?

If we're going to play it passive when it hits what's the point playing it at all?

Would your plan be to flat the flop then pass the dangerous turn or do you just flat the turn as well?

Flatting the flop then folding the turn in this instance would be truely heroic but I am not convinced its long term winning play. If you can't repot the flop with the nuts then I'm not sure when you are supposed to! I agree that this is just a cooler.

Matt, I could not agree more, it's one hell of a cooler, and no way I could fold this turn but I'm reluctant to raise it.

On the turn we have 2nd nuts str. and 2nd set and I'm almost certainly flatting thinking that villain can't have everything.

Unfortunately he did, well almost.