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Title: Is this a shove? Post by: Simon Galloway on August 11, 2009, 04:44:46 PM I was sweating a friend in-game and his opponents were very tight and neither had a move in their bodies. As he folded his button, I said "I probably would have shoved it aginst these two - wiz won't like it but I do."
Anyway, we wiz'd it and even tightening their ranges right up it was neutral at best. So, shove or fold against 2 lumps of granite? Full Tilt Poker Game #13853643310: $6 + 0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo) (102187124), Table 1 - 300/600 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:07:21 ET - 2009/08/06 Seat 4: Hero (6,710) Seat 5: ONoffON (2,250) Seat 9: longhands (4,540) ONoffON posts the small blind of 300 longhands posts the big blind of 600 The button is in seat #4 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Hero [6d 9c] Hero folds ONoffON raises to 2,250, and is all in longhands folds Uncalled bet of 1,650 returned to ONoffON ONoffON mucks ONoffON wins the pot (1,200) *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 1,200 | Rake 0 Seat 4: Hero (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: ONoffON (small blind) collected (1,200), mucked Seat 9: longhands (big blind) folded before the Flop Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: GreekStein on August 11, 2009, 04:51:27 PM i shove
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Longy on August 11, 2009, 04:56:12 PM This is one of those spots where taking a -ev spot is fine as we lose all our fold equity in our stack after this hand, in fact as long as the bb isn't a reg or someone likely to look you up super light I am always shoving here.
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Simon Galloway on August 11, 2009, 05:02:38 PM This is one of those spots where taking a -ev spot is fine as we lose all our fold equity in our stack after this hand, in fact as long as the bb isn't a reg or someone likely to look you up super light I am always shoving here. we've got the big stack Mark. And the way this was playing out, the other two still had plenty of passes in them... Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: gatso on August 11, 2009, 05:05:36 PM I like the shove here but think it's close
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: boldie on August 11, 2009, 05:12:12 PM I don't mind passing this every now and again. the calling range for ONoffON should be pretty wide anyways..passing this every now and again means he's not leaving the game just yet and we cna shove again next round.
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Longy on August 11, 2009, 05:19:20 PM This is one of those spots where taking a -ev spot is fine as we lose all our fold equity in our stack after this hand, in fact as long as the bb isn't a reg or someone likely to look you up super light I am always shoving here. we've got the big stack Mark. And the way this was playing out, the other two still had plenty of passes in them... Yeah misread the hh. On 2nd viewing I don't really like the shove, though it does depend on your image. My image is normally shot to pieces by this point so I shy away from making shoves that are at best neutral ev. Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: MANTIS01 on August 11, 2009, 10:05:15 PM It does depend on your image to an extent, I mean if you've been hyper-aggressive you can fold this because your oppos are gearing up to call you light. But if you have a decent image it's the image of your oppos that becomes relevant. We know they have an inclination to fold, and the stack dynamics present us with a good opportunity to exploit that. We are on top and should press our advantage. I think folding takes our foot of the gas at the crucial time and there isn't really any firm evidence to support that strategy. sb will fold and push the button often enough imo. Pushing is a better gamble than folding if we want to win this.
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: LuckyLloyd on August 12, 2009, 12:36:53 AM When it's this close, just get them in. Your assumptions can always be a little off (due to people running good / bad over small sample sizes), and it doesn't take much error either way to make folding / shoving good / bad.
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: nirvana on August 12, 2009, 01:21:16 AM Yes
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Simon Galloway on August 12, 2009, 03:13:27 AM Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: LuckyLloyd on August 12, 2009, 09:01:46 AM When stacks are this short and it's three handed, a loooooooot of things are. Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Simon Galloway on August 12, 2009, 03:52:20 PM When stacks are this short and it's three handed, a loooooooot of things are. Oh I agree, I was advocating the shove in the first place. It was a comment for Nirvana who uses his patented forumla: If wine consumed >2 and opponent luckbox factor <0.99 and cardroom = Luton then SHOVE, ELSE shove. Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: nirvana on August 12, 2009, 05:44:17 PM When stacks are this short and it's three handed, a loooooooot of things are. Oh I agree, I was advocating the shove in the first place. It was a comment for Nirvana who uses his patented forumla: If wine consumed >2 and opponent luckbox factor <0.99 and cardroom = Luton then SHOVE, ELSE shove. I think opponent luckbox factor is key here, against you and Sicilan I shove all day long - against a number of other luckier players I can't make the move Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Lucky on August 13, 2009, 11:16:41 PM When stacks are this short and it's three handed, a loooooooot of things are. Oh I agree, I was advocating the shove in the first place. It was a comment for Nirvana who uses his patented forumla: If wine consumed >2 and opponent luckbox factor <0.99 and cardroom = Luton then SHOVE, ELSE shove. I think opponent luckbox factor is key here, against you and Sicilan I shove all day long - against a number of other luckier players I can't make the move I love the scientific analysis! Alan / Lucky / don't shove against me ! Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: nirvana on August 14, 2009, 04:47:02 PM When stacks are this short and it's three handed, a loooooooot of things are. Oh I agree, I was advocating the shove in the first place. It was a comment for Nirvana who uses his patented forumla: If wine consumed >2 and opponent luckbox factor <0.99 and cardroom = Luton then SHOVE, ELSE shove. I think opponent luckbox factor is key here, against you and Sicilan I shove all day long - against a number of other luckier players I can't make the move I love the scientific analysis! Alan / Lucky / don't shove against me ! lol, I probably shouldn't post on something titled Poker Hand Analysis Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Chompy on August 14, 2009, 04:49:21 PM <3 x merlot divided by flip flops + shove monkey = most of the time they can't call
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: Sack it off on August 14, 2009, 04:51:12 PM I shove
Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: the sicilian on August 14, 2009, 11:42:19 PM When stacks are this short and it's three handed, a loooooooot of things are. Oh I agree, I was advocating the shove in the first place. It was a comment for Nirvana who uses his patented forumla: If wine consumed >2 and opponent luckbox factor <0.99 and cardroom = Luton then SHOVE, ELSE shove. I think opponent luckbox factor is key here, against you and Sicilan I shove all day long - against a number of other luckier players I can't make the move You did ! and I got you with man Bag all acock..you still luckboxed ur way out of it ...sigh.... Title: Re: Is this a shove? Post by: paulhouk03 on August 16, 2009, 08:35:37 PM its a turbo so shove
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