blonde poker forum

£300 Live Festival event... 107 Runners..Table breaks moved to a new table...I am one of the big stacks on 40K Blind 200-400 35 runners left

few hands into the new table folded to me in mid position i limp with QJ o/s....folds to the Sb who calls then the BB who i have no info on and has 25K makes it another 2K... I call SB Folds.

Flop J 5 3 Rainbow BB Checks.. I lead for the pot about 5kish ..BB dwells then moves allin for another 18K..

Call or Fold  ....??

Raise pre, then fold pre, never bet the pot with a hand and fold, but i would check flop.

Guess what i am saying is call now but do everything opposite to what you did in the future.

Fold pre. Fold flop and hate yourself for not folding pre.

this

raise pre if you are playing the hand

 check behind to let worse bet out at the turn (and control pot size)

raise pre

Just don't open limp pots imo.

lol.

i rate ur game but this is a 100% car crash.

this

Lol you two are well above my level, i agree with flushy at the mo though so need some reasons alex to help me understand where your coming from?

open limping terrible hands like QJo is only going to end in tears

Ok Guys.......... in this particular hand I was actually the Big Blind...

I just wanted a little feedback from people whose opinion I would respect...

In my opinion the guy played the hand about as bad as  anyone could..

1. open limp with this marginal....if i played this hand at all i'd be coming in for a raise..

2. im not overly happy about the flat call of another large stack even with position... QJ o/s is like KJ KQ A 10 etc in this position... you could be destroyed pre and end up calling off a lump when you hit

3. I actually mentally kicked myself after this hand as I had no need to play such a big pot as I had chipped up nicely with no hands against a relatively soft table but I could almost smell the guys weakness.. i knew after the flop and the big pot bet he either had nothing and was trying to take it down or he had a weak jack that couldnt stand a re-push...( i had Ak,which i had planned to check fold but he looked so uncomfortable ) and even if he did i still had an escape hatch... Unfortunatley the guy took 1 second to call which meant there was no thought process at all of the hand from start to finish and he like so many just saw top pair....
Lets face it anything remotely genuine had this guy crushed in a pot for 125BB...

In his position after the flop check from me I would check behind and see what the BB done on the turn..this is more a pot control check and im looking to maybe catch a pair of 8,9,10s thinking there ahead but if i get repushed like that i cant find an argument that im in any way in front

This a decent buyin festival event may go some way to the argument of how bad live players are ( as a half live half internet player i have always stood up for the live player )...as a more extreme example in the same tourney, a guy hit a middle pin on the turn v my top set Queens which i checked called hoping to pair the board and take all his money and when the river blanked he actually checked behind me last to act with the stone cold nuts... he was truly awful and  went on to finish 4th for £4k..

Playing devil's advocate here. We know villain is unorthadox straight away, I mean he lands at a new table with chips and uses them to open limp rather than just sitting on his hands for a bit and watching the action. So we already know he doesn't conform to thr rules of good pokers. I agree with your post sicilian but you've made a big move with no knowledge of what this guy's about, so in a way you're just as guilty as him of spewing chips blindly. You've given the rest of the table some quality info at great expense to yourself. You might have smelt a weak hand but does this guy lay down such a hand if you push? You don't know and pushed anyway. Frustrating I know.

Totally agree.. Why I kicked myself mentally in the nuts as posted as i left the table.. absolutely no need to make the move as I had a soft table and had chipped up nicely... and i know i would have got him figured out pretty soon by just watching for 2 orbits.. Sigh... never mind as always with this game you continue to learn

I'm afraid you were out-played and out-thought again

Hi,

I really don't think this is a very good way to be looking at the hand. By posting it from the other perspective you gain nothing except confirmation that the other played the hand badly, that is just confirmation that you are doing your game selection right  :)up

The only things that you should be taking from this specific hand/situation/mistake are; that you need to remember to not assume that because you think one way is the best way to play a hand that's what your opponent is thinking (if they are even thinking at all!). Just because you would pot control that marginal hand from his perspective he has to bet and protect his tp maybe.

Just because you have no reads doesn't mean that he will play as cautiously as you would in that spot, if he is just playing his hand it doesn't matter who he is up against or why. You refer to knowing that he will def fold a J which is TP live which you just cant know. The standards of £300-£1000 competitions really isn't great compared to that of an online $100 or $200 tournament.



So anyway I take it that the actual hh is

MP VIL 40k
BB HERO 25k

MP calls 400, SB completes, BB raises to 2.4k, MP calls 2k, SB folds.

FLOP

J53r  (5k)

BB check, bet 5k, raise 22.6k (17.6k to call pot of [5+22.6+5]=32.6k  with [40-5-2.4]=32.6 so ~ 1/2 that much left which is 40 bets if he calls and loses roughly)

Preflop is fine.  Why do you then check a rainbow flop with the initiative. Surely if you are checking you are checking to check fold, a psb at a rainbow board having limped looks alot stronger to me from an unknown than a smaller bet or the same bet on a more co-ordinated board.  As you are deep still and this player is obviously poor because even with a big stack he is open limping in a circuit even i'd just now c/f, I would rather bet 3k and fold to a raise or just get flatted and play a turn than try and c/r and move him off whatever he has potted the flop with.


Don't get me wrong I dont mean to sound preachy or like I am being results orientated considering the thread had evolved before I replied but i've done stuff like this live before and it is normally in the situation where I am OOP and have checked and then dont want to fold, you've just gotta bink one of your outs when called obv!

I don't get why you don't cbet the flop instead of trying some fancy check raise move that risks 18k instead of 3k against an opponent like this.

Which was my point. Butchered by sicilidonk imo.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

OK, well the cat is out of the bag now.  Let's put it another way.  Dean, when was the last time you check raised the flop with an actual hand?

When the flop came down my thoughts were firmly in the c/f camp but his large bet screamed weakness and he looked incredibly uncomfortable.. I suppose a slightly safer option would to be c/c the bet and lead the turn but I still think we are moving into commitment type areas... I quite liked the move apart from the result, i still had outs and c/r Allin from original raiser is incredibly powerful.. however i feel c/f was the right play as i was deep and the table was soft..opportunities were just around the corner...

My reasons for laying out the post from a different perspective were 2 fold really H/analysis and maybe open a debate on the level of skill of your average live player.. I mean I'm not short of a few quid by any means but i still feel £300 is a big buyin for an average player and I think that the vast majority of people who enter these events must be completely deluded or/and very losing players...

I really have to thank you for this Simon..anyone reading this would think im a complete lagtard nutter..    ;D

Didn't mean to come across rude talking about the posting style, I was very surprised coming from online of all tournaments from 300-1k. The 1k at DTD that I played was by far the worst standard tournament I have seen it was crazy. There are alot of losing players and not enough tournaments for luck to even themselves out such that if they win even a little bit once or twice they wont think they are doing that bad and will keep donating.

At the last monthly deepstack there, the table was shorthanded for the first half an hour and I was isolating the lady to my left every time she limped which was most hands and not once did she raise pre or rr me she would just fold mainly pre or call and c/f unless she connected. People where pointing out what I was doing and no one tried to stop me it was weird.

You sound like you don't like live poker. Yeah, these 1k buy-in tournies full of terrible clueless players are a real drag aren't they? So why do we insist on spunking our stacks into them? It's up to us to outplay whoever's put in front of us nomatter how bad they might be and sicilian couldn't do that. These tournaments aren't so easy to win if you play worse than the bad players.