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So everybody gets a lengthy ban..but the player only gets 4 months? WTF? I even heard a tool on Skysports say that "4 months is too much as there is loads of pressure on players". Surely the player should also get 3 years +? (Or even be banned completely)

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090818/tuk-richards-banned-for-three-years-over-dba1618.html

Not really, he didn't make the decision to cheat he was told to. It also happens in virtually every match and so why blame the player?

it does?

Can someone explain this to an egg chasing thicko.

What advantage is gained by pretending to be cut ?

and what is the full story behind this case ?

wathing sky sports news today the interviews and journalists indicating it's a standard unspoken practice. Stuart barnes on now saying its common..

This is the part that really gets me "he was told to cheat, so it's not his fault"??? When did players not become responsible for their own actions? Surely he could just say "No, boss. I am not going to do it"?

Do you blame the soilder or the general? I personally dont care what happens as Union is a southern puffs sport.

in Rugby, a blood injury means a player has to leave the field

the advantage in this situation is that the player can be replaced by a specialist kicker

this was a tight game, near the end, an extra kicker for say a drop goal might win them the game


it's likely that a solution to this is that the authorities will change the blood replacement rules

Looks like you might be right about the puffs sport bit. If someone tells you to cheat andc you don't have the balls to say no..you really are a puff.

Ussually you blame the general..but only in war time situations...this doesn't qualify IMO.

blood subs also allow you to give a player a rest during the game as the subbed player can return to the field unlike with normal substitutions

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7989373.stm

A report from the original game for you Kev.

Thankfully Nick Evans (the subbed kicker who came back on) missed a drop goal attempt with about two minutes left and Leinster won the match 6-5. If he had landed it this whole thing would be much messier.

Has anyone blamed Richards for it? I got the impression he was unaware but has just taken responsibilty for it.
Cutting his mouth after the game to make it look legit is pretty dodgy too. Richards said he had nothing to do with that either.
I loved the commentary at the time "Who cut Tom Williams? Tom Williams??"

No way

Ban the player for 3 years and although the numbers look the same and so look all pretty, the reality would be much harsher.

You're effectively ending his career if you ban Tom Williams for 3 years.

He didn't say it's not his fault though did he?

No-one one this thread has said he should get off scot free. He is responsible for his own actions yes, and he is being punished accordingly.

Where are you getting 4 months from?

From what I've seen, Tom Williams is banned till July next year.

Surely the career of the trainer is also over now?

If drug cheats get banned for 2 years in Athletics, why is this not just as bad? Blatant cheating like this should lead to almost costing you your career. there should be no sympathy for something as dodgy as this.

the 4 months comes from him winning his appeal;

Appeal Decisions
After almost 14 hours of hearings the independent Appeal Committee, chaired by Rod McKenzie (Scotland) and also comprising Professor Lorne D Crerar (Scotland) and Mark McParland (Ireland), issued the following decisions.


Tom Williams: Following the introduction of new evidence by Mr Williams where he admitted his guilt in the Misconduct and where he explained the part played by Mr Richards and Mr Brennan in fabricating the wound or blood injury, as well as disclosing full details of the steps taken by those involved to cover up what had happened in the period following the match, the Committee upheld the appeal and reduced the sanction to a suspension of four (4) months up-to and including 19 November 2009.

Boldie I'm afraid that you are starting to sound a little, well more than a little self-righteous imho.

As a team game a great deal of pressure can be applied to one player "for the good of the team", and I for one am able to empathise with that.

Of course you can empathise with that..but the "orders are orders" stops with soldiers and "peer pressure made me do it" is not an excuse anymore after you're 12.
I think 4 months is too short...or will we now also let drugcheats off with light bans because "the boss told me to do it"?

This is 4 months for match fixing IMO...that's just not on.

The injustice comes the fact that the laws of rugby union are far too complicated and much is down to 'interpretation' there are many grey areas and players push the boundaries of the law every game. This causes a 'get away with what you can' type of mentality which leads to cheating even in areas such as the blood rule where there is much less scope for interpretation.

Richards and Williams have clearly suffered from the RFU trying to approach the problem from the wrong angle. You can't condone their actions but when so many have got away with similar actions for so long it is obvious why they feel hard done by.

Will Carling's blog on the subject

 by Will Carling   

harlequins rugby, dean richards, tom williams, harlequins ban

So it is now out in the open that Tom Williams was cut. OK, he was cut to cover the fake blood capsule, so it is nothing new in my eyes, Quins have been caught for cheating and this is just the uncovering of Quins attempt to cover it up!! There is actually no new news here, just further investigation into an already guilty party.

Am I alone in thinking that the rugby world is getting quite hysterical about this incident, or is all this melodramatic ranting in the media entirely justified?

Do any of us think this is the first time that a player/ coach / club has cheated in rugby? Do we really naively believe that rugby is played and coached and refereed by such bloody good blokes that this sort of thing is unthinkable and simply can not have happened before? If so, get a bloody life!

I am not for a minute saying it is right, but what I am saying is this is no where near the first time and yet by many people's fanatical reaction you would have thought someone had just shot the second coming of Christ!

Every time a prop has conveniently limped off to ensure uncontested scrums, that has been a bona fide injury - but of course! I think we all know the truth, and yet those instances could not be proved, and were not in games that were as close of covered in the manner that the Harlequins V Leinster game was.

Let me make one thing clear, I am not agreeing with what Quins did that day, it was wrong, pure and simple, but what I am saying is that it has been happening uncommented upon for many years and will continue to do so. What I am beginning to find unacceptable is the witch hunt that is ensuing following on from the punishment handed out to Quins.

The player Tom Williams should be banned for a number of games, that is all, and he should not have been used as a pawn in the game to force the hand of the club. Those who run the game and oversee the punishment of misdemeanors should be big enough and strong enough to do that themselves. The Club should be fined and have a far larger fine hanging over their head of they are found to be guilty of the same crime again.

Matter closed.

Instead we are facing the prospect of more intimate details of what exactly happened that day being made public, and I am not sure for what reason? For the gossips to sit over pints and mutter 'not in my day', for members of the press to pretend that they are shocked and appalled and everyone involved should be impeached and castrated? or just for more bloody column inches.....

It is done, we know enough of what happened, and that should be the end of it. I know I am biased, but Dean Richards is and will continue to be a very powerful and successful coach, and i do not want to see his reputation shredded for the enjoyment of 'grey men' who have never put their balls on the line and attempted anything but love to lurk in the shadows and snipe at men who happen to fail every now and then, who happen to make mistakes, which are then blown up to such a degree that we then forget all the achievements that they have made in the first place. In my mind he is a great player, a really great man and a bloody bloody good coach. Yes he made a bad call, but he made it in the pursuit of winning. He crossed the line, and that is wrong, but maybe this is just me, but I would always chose to hang around with, play alongside guys that were willing to cross that line, who had the balls and the backbone to cross that line in the pursuit of success, rather than the ones who crap themselves at the very sight of it!

I'm glad he won his appeal.

Don't be a dafty. Surely I don't have to explain this one?


Eh

A closer comparisom might be an athlete running in the wrong lane on a bendy bit.

If a rugby player was taking steroids to improve their performance in the scrum your anaology might have some relevance. As is, you're just being a loon.

I think a drug-test might be in order for boldie  ;dingdell;

I totally disagree Boldie

I dunno how much these guys get paid but Im assuming its more than a normal job, they are getting paid for doing the thing they love and they have made it to a high level.  When you are part of such a high profile team you must do what the manager tells you, he is paid to tell everyone what to do and if someone doesnt do it then they cant be trusted in the team and thed manager will not play them and their career could slow down because of it.

This guy did what he was told by his boss to preserve his career and his place on the team and to win and I cant fault him for it.  These guys live to win and have families to feed.

Also, players/coaches/managers from any sport arent doing their jobs if they are not exploring every possible way to bend every law in the game to give their team as much of an advantage as possible.  It happens in every sport.

I think with todays revaltions prove its not the players fault. boldie like to comment?

what revelations mate?

All I can find is this story;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/harlequins/8219075.stm

He states that he was "put under immense pressure" (whatever that means) and was "offered extra perks not to implicate the club".
It also states that "Williams, who had his one-year ban reduced to four months on appeal, also admitted he asked for his mortgage to be paid in return for agreeing to the demands."


So he knew he was wrong and asked for a bribe. this clears him how?

Any other revelations I would love o read about as I'm curious as to how this guy can now be seen as "not at fault"

Why don't they just allow specialist kickers. At least then Chris Paterson would get a game.

It just shows you that the players knew if they didn't do what they were told to do, rightly or wrongly they would not play or have a future at the club. You are the only person on here or that I know off that believes the players should be dealt with more harshly and that they were weak not to refuse to do this.

I know you dug yourself into a hole but come on admit you are slightly wrong :)

I reckon that it shows that Rugby is an inherently corrupt game and needs to be thoroughly cleansed.
Harlequins appears to be getting away with quite a bit here to protect the image of the game.

It is one thing saying that "I was put under pressure to do this which is why I did it"...quite another to demand that the club pay off your mortgage if you go along with it. That does not show that the guy was scared (or the club could have said "F Off, don't do this and you'll never play again") it shows that he was corrupt. He was never sorry when he did it...everyone could see him winking to the bench in a "there ya go boys, now we can win the game"

That does not mean that he was scared..it means he's a cheat IMO.

I am not saying BTW that there aren't players who were not scared into doing something like this by their club.
As this whole saga shows; it's a corrupt sport so some players could well have been bullied into doing something like this.

This player though, judging from his actions, definitely wasn't and should have received a much harsher punishment.

TBH, I hope the game cleans itsself up...or dies the painful death it deserves if it continues like this.

I think a big deal has been made over it. He broke the rules so it is cheating but they've not fixed the game they just tried to gain an advantage and it didn't work. I don't see much difference between this and a footballer diving to get a penalty apart from the OTT aftermath.

Rarely have I ever seen sanctimonious self-righteous claptrap of these proportions.

What next ? Six month bans for feigning injury or simulation/diving.

With respect, ie not much at all, this is completely bananas

A corrupt sport? die the painful death it deserves?


All sports have varying degrees of unsporting conduct, pushing rules to the edge and over etc etc.

To use language like you have used about a sport actually populated by a vast majority of extremely sportsmanlike players is laughable

PS. Rarely have I ever seen a deeper hole dug either.

He's a tall fella - he needs a big hole.  He's nearly there though...

lol very hard..but tell me, smart guy, how do you think we should get rid of feigning injury and simulation in sports (all sports including footie)?