blonde poker forum

OK this was against a very decent player from Newcastle. He opens for 76k at 15/30k.

I have 1.1m at start of the hand. Villian has about 700k

I 3 bet to 188k.

He 4 bets to 350k. Two questions:

1) Is he EVER folding to a shove?

2) What hands should I be shoving for value?

In terms of history this is the first hand I've 3 bet him although my image is awful (as usual)

I was talking to Simon Trumper earlier about this hand .... we both had Neil on QQ min and said he was never folding to a shove from you.

i reckon he may have a midpair and be making a move as you have been very aggressive at this tabvle, especially against this villain. I reckon he might fold to a 5 bet and is making some kinda move with a mid pair like 88 as you have been over aggressive, esp that J7 you fish

1. no
2. everything tht u decided u wernt 3b/folding when u 3bet.

How is he making a move with 88, unless the move is, getting it in for valoooo, in which case he probs aint folding.

George obv he is never folding, as Jones said get it in with your 3b call range, fold your 3b fold range...

i was always 3 bet folding but just want opinions what i should be 5 bet shoving with.

i was 4 bet folding lol

seriously??? isn't that a huge spew? nice bet by the way

You put half your stack in to fold your last 350k into a pot of over a million? Why?

he picks up 120k risking 190, it works enough.......

probsJJ+/ak tbh, but impossible to say from here

also, are u rolled for these games?

Looks a good move to me against the right oppo.

The 4 bet looks like a 4 bet to induce so George needs something pretty big to shove with unless he's got balls of steel or a very good read.

Isn't any 4-bet designed to look like it's there to induce? I was wondering why the chip daddy with 1.1m is deemed the right person to make this move on, especially when there's gonna be so much money in the pot. Looking to 4-bet fold with a stack of 23bb's just strikes me as odd. But apart from that 4-bet/folding to leave yourself with 10bb's when there would be 1.1 million out there seems questionable imo, especially vs a loose/aggro oppo. The pot would be offering you over 3-1 to win a total stack of 1.5 million and prob 1st prize in the tournament. You've still got equity in this pot nomatter what.

oppo should never be 4bet folding - but seen players live do really odd stuff

i guess when you 3bet you had a plan as to what was coming next but i am not folding any of my 3bet value raising hands

Exactly. That's why it looks so strong. Therefore George needs a very strong hand (or balls of steel) to shove.

I agree with everything else you say but it depends on the cards I'm holding really.

I'd never 4 bet fold with A4 for example because unless I'm up against AA I've always got a 30% bink possibility.

If I've done it with 74 it's an absolute stone cold bluff with the intention of folding to the shove.

I'm not saying that I regularly do this btw as obv I don't.

There's a world of difference between a 3 bet value raise and a 3 bet bluff though.

I'd guess George had a bag of bollox here and was just trying to nick the pot.

If he was value raising he's snap shoving the 4 bet 100% of the time.

exactly what i was saying. If he is 3bet bluffing then he can fold, especially as villain shouldn't be folding after 4betting ever. I don't know what cards George has.

i was just saying that i wouldn't be 3bet/folding big aces and pocket pairs here that i was 3betting for value.

i think we were saying the same thing

But what about oppo? The big question is whether he could be 4 bet bluffing. He has come on saying that he was 4 bet folding for half of his stack.

Would you ever expect your oppo to 4 bet fold? If not then what adjustments do you have to make to your 3 bet shove / 3 bet fold range?

i said that i wouldn't expect anyone to 4bet fold for half their stack, but obviously some people do.

until he came on and said he was 4bet/folding I bet most people, including George, would be convinced that he couldn't fold. I presume we hadn't seen him fold in these circumstances before?

You dont have to believe him lol. Imo the better the player is compared to the rest of the field the higher the likelihood that he could fold if you jam it in. However considering we 3 bet we already had a plan for this and it involves not being able to fold strong hands and snap folding weaker hands so there is no question.

Just assume he's not folding after he 4bets.


value range.

yea, there had been no situation like this prior in the tournament, and he had been playing rather solid. He was having a bit of a tricky time with george directly to his left, been giving a couple of walks on his BB and had been 3 bet off a raise as well, so i think the 4 bet has to be given some respect here

I think this was a genuinely tricky spot with my image. I did intend to 3 bet fold but really wanted tyo pull the trigger and shove.

I think I showed I was capable of shoving with bollox.

I had A5 green btw

Don't give your chips away pls sir.

play your game you know he's folding a ton of his opening range regardless.

Yeh why even consider 5 betting less than AK,QQ if he's making a move here then well played. You raised to fold to 4 bet.

I had a plan when I 3 bet and went with but sometimes you pick up on something in live poker. Sometimes you're horribly wrong (like the J7 vs 10 10) but sometimes you just go with it. Saying you won't even consider shoving with less then QQ here is too tight imo. I'm certainly shoving JJ here. Probably 10 10

lol wtf?  villains 23x deep im 3b/calling like the world here.

Buzz wtf did u have here?!?!

ha i had 89s :P

it just felt like a good spot to 4 bet against you,knowing what you were capable of doing and i felt the tiny 4 bet looked stronger than the 4 bet jam. think i was risking summit like 250k more to pick up around 300k so was good odds if it worked.

in regards to wether i could call the 5 bet jam, nowadays im pretty sure i call getting like 5/1 or summit.

back then i was really really inexperienced with this only being my 3rd mtt over £100, and i think i was probably gunna fold, on the logic that the rest of the table were F'ing useless and i couldve moved my remaining 13bb's or whatever it was pretty easily

also the 8 or 9 double vodka and red bulls and 5 or 6 final table complimentry corona's probably helped me find the 4 ball