blonde poker forum

Playing the stars $20 1R1A

Blinds are 300/600 + 50

I've got about 20k oppo has about the same.

330 players left, lots to go before the money.

I'm in the cut off with  Ahrt 5h and raise to 1400

BB 3 bets to 4400

Now I know that if we're going to 4 bet here we have to have a plan. Unfortunately I didn't. For some reason I decided that the BB just thought I was at it. Don't ask me why. I think I was a bit on tilt because of the disconnection problems everyone was facing.

So I make it 9400 and the BB instashoves.

I give the dog a quick kick and then hit time bank to have a think.

So I've made a huge error but now what? Do I compound that error by calling because I've got the right price against everything but AA?

I know that I'm behind and I've got a 30% chance of winning but that still means I'll most likely lose.

Call and win gives me 40k chips. Nowhere near chip lead and by no means certain to make the money.

Fold and I've still got 17 bbs and a chance to recover.

So what's the preferred action for the recovery plan?

I would fold...and tilt my stack off in the few hands after this.

Interesting question as long as people avoid saying don't 4-bet/fold which you know already.

I call. 330 players out, let me bink a stack or get an early night once I've put half my chips in the middle.

dont slowroll the poor fella, 40k is enormous at this stage, just suckout like a pro.

Thought this was going to be about the 8d 7d hand last night...

That was no mistake!!

Spite call ftmfw!!!!

I shove, bust his KK and think well played :)

Yeah its a call for me but knowing you've made a mistake.

40k from here would ensure a pretty deep run thou

after the 4b you have to call

Don't date strippers imo.

whats wrong with dating strippers?

So general concensus seems to be call.

Does this mean that it's ok to 4 bet this hand if our plan is to snap the shove?

Or should we pass to his 3 bet?

And if we are passing to his 3 bet does that mean that we should just pass pre as we know that by raising in the first place our eventual plan is to get the lot in?

Generally we should be passing this hand to the 3-bet at this stage with our stack. We're only calling because we've 4-bet and are now committed maths wise.

So we're just bluff raising pre?

Does this make all of our late position raises very exploitable?

Dunno what the standard is like in the $20 +1's on stars but assuming players aren't often 3-betting at this stage so it's fair to assume their range has you crushed.

Aren't you just bluff-raising pre?  You want them to fold, or possibly call if you can bluff them off the hand again (unless you hit obviously).  When they re-raise, any further re-raise is a continuation of the bluff that you started originally.

If you're raising from the same position every orbit, then you are going to be susceptible to a re-raise that you really can't (or shouldn't call).  Surely that's why you mix it up a bit?

If i'm 4-betting here, i'm giving him the shipping news and jamming.

Yeah I think I should've done this.

If I'm not 4 betting to induce I should be 4 betting with FE to get him to pass a better hand.

But not with 33 bigs.

Should just have raise folded, now just steam call tho.

Call and laugh when you bink the  Aspades on the river to crack his kings

call and cry when unbelievably you dont crack his  AA

Yeah I did look at the shove but it was too much. I just got a bit stubborn. Doh!!!!

Raise fold definitely best option or even fold pre.

So what hand do you need here for it to be a happy call rather than a steam one?

any stats or previous on villian? opr etcetc

You compound the error by folding, you have a chance to redeem yourself by calling, flopping  2d Jh 4h, then re-posting this hand in a bad beat forum when the turn comes the  2s and the  Qd

But that would've cost me 50p.

After making this mistake I knew I'd be needing the half a quid to rebuild my bankroll.

Clear fold to 3-bet.

Once 4 bet then snap off his shove, and then obviously post on here when you've been knocked out by JJ, cos you havent got run good dimes behind you.

Please never mention, not raising, in this spot again pre.

raise was fine but fold to a reraise , but call after 4 betting 

I think you're taking this raise with a plan idea to the extreme buddy. This all sounds a bit weird actually. You don't need to think about some "eventual plan" to open a pot in late pos with a suited Ace. Opening cos you probably have the best hand is a good enough reason to take the initiative. If you have aggro 3-betting villains to your left then ok you can think further ahead. The problem here is just you make a impatient tilty snap-decision. The plan should be to avoid that if you can.

It doesnt even matter Matt cos we're going Ireland tomorrow! oioi

Yup. I hope to in future  ;)

I think the fold to 3 bet for future use as much as anything would've been worthwhile. Would hopefully give me a chance to 4 bet shove him a bit later when not quite so deep and improve my FE chances.

I just don't like to be exploitable in late position and raise folding is definitely that.

Obviously 4 bet folding is even more exploitable .........

Unless you get action 50%+ of the time its hard to be exploited.

Yeah I guess so. I hadn't thought of it that way.

I guess I need to stop being so stubborn in late position.

Uve made a standard small ball nick raise which going in ur folding to a reraise unless v serial re raiser. The whole point of the initial raise is to nick blinds not get involved in a war with serious marginal..thats the whole ethos of the small ball play..once u get into 4 bet mode u have to call and hope to run like a shrewdie

You're never 4 betting to fold with these stack sizes if you think he's re-stealing against your steal jam it in his eye pre.

Yeah, the being so stubborn is the exploitable thing, not the raising. Anyway, if you raise/fold you can hopefully exploit that image yourself should you pick up a hand. If you open fold the A here cos of this "eventual plan" theory what hands are you raising with in late position.....premium? Good luck getting action if you only ever raise with Aces here. At the poker table when someone tells me they never bluff I tell them they're shit.