blonde poker forum

The beauty of working at DTD is that there are a number of TD's and Floorstaff that can discuss and talk a ruling through, but this one is slightly unusual as there is a difference of opinion.

Blinds are 75/150

Small blind has 3 x 25 in
Big Blind 6 x 25 in

Folds around to small blind, who takes 2 yellows back and puts in 1 x 500, but didn't say anything, leaving him with 525 in the pot
BB asks dealer whether it is a raise, dealer calls for a ruling.

Discuss

It is a call I think. Once his chips are in the pot For the blind they are not his so he is using one chip , the 500 . One chip in with no verbal goes as a call I think.

If he leaves his 3 x 25 in place I would have said its a call, as one chip added to the table.

Howver, since he has taken back 2 x 25 then his intention is surely to raise to 525.

I would say that was a raise, because if he was calling why would he leave the third 25 in, which doesn't really help you get him change? Surely he would take all three 25s back and put the one chip in if it was a call, or at least not take any 25s back and complete with the 500? This is of course dependent on what other chips he has remaining, if he has more than enough 100s and 25s to make a combination of 150, that weights it even more towards a raise.

Raise for me. A player is entitled to pull his own chips back in this spot so if he wantd to call but didn't have change then he should prob pull his 150 back first before throwing the 500. As the 25 in there is his I'd rule it as a 2 chip bet so 525.

If the button put in 525 there would be no debate about whether it was a raise or not, so why is the sb any different?

fyp

and I agree with this!!

100% a raise. if he meant to call then there is no reason for his actions

+1

this

yep deffo a raise imo. surprised it was even queried tbh.

If the SB had 3 x 25 chips and simply just threw a 500 chip on top it is only seen as a call (if the button put 575 it is a raise). If the SB took the 75 back and threw a 500 chip in, it is a call.

The arguement is technically, as a blind is a forced bet, all the player has done is to throw in an oversize chip. If he took the 75 back and then threw 525 in it would be a raise, but TECHNICALLY and literally an oversize chip has been thrown in, the rule doesn't say anything about taking a chip out of the pot (as the player really shouldn't be having his hands in the pot in the first place)

 

but surely by leaving 1 chip in, i shows a clear intent - he would have absolutely no reason to do it otherwise

this is what he has effectively done and it is clearly his intention

how was it ruled at the time?

What if the guy was colourblind or unfamiliar/confused about the values of the chips ?

It's a tricky one with no communication from the player.

he hasn't touched the pot he has simply taken back his own chips put in a raise!

Agreed. BUT. Those chips have yet to be pulled into the pot so this is fine imo.

I ruled a raise, and used the words it is clear intent.

However, if someone has stacks of low value chips, and the blinds are 25/50, if someone throws in a square (to stop the colour blind thing) 1000 chip without saying anything, although it is intent. It is a call.

This shouldn't happen, a player should never get their own change, even if it is from their own chips they have put in. It just seems accepted that the small blind sometimes takes out the whole SB and makes up.

This isn't getting change though, it's just correcting your bet.

Eg. Someone bets 800. I call. There's a raise to 2000. Me throwing in 2x1000 at pulling in my 800 is perfectly fine surely? Obv if I only had a 5000 chip then I'd pull my 800 back, throw the 5k in and let you deal with change from there. The rule I follow is I don't mind players touching their own bets as long as they touch no-one elses: the chips in front of a person must be their own and unaffected by anyone else.

Technically no, you should say call and throw your 2 x 1000 chips and wait for the dealer to give you the 800, although in reality as said, it is accepted and has become the norm.

less work for dealer IMO!

Depends on the dealer, I'm normally pretty sharp and I'll make sure the pot is correct so the player will be facing 1200 more to call. If you can get the 2k in before I have done that though I don't mind.

you mean you'll have already pulled the bets in? This is bad practice imo

think he means changed a 1k in the pot and left the bet infront of the player and give him change!

He says we're facing a situation of 1200 more to call. I get the impression that he's pulled the 800 in already and is now going around saying "1200 to call". This is bad. The chips should be left in front with the announcement of "the bet is 2000".