blonde poker forum

I was going to post this on my Monkey Staking thread but then probably not as many people would read it as if i posted it here.

Everybody please check your bank account if you have ever made a deposit to pokerstars - you may find that they have taken money out of your account without your consent just like they have done with me!

It has been the first month of the Monkey Staking thread and things have gone ok, i was going to finish the first month well in profit so as this is the first full month in my new place and as i've just shelled out for a new car (well new used car! :D) i decided that i would take a couple of hundred dollars out of my share of the first months profit to see me thru the rest of the month. I had enough in my account to cover all the bills and direct debits due out at the first of the month so this would give me a bit of spending money.

So on Friday afternoon i checked my bank account, i'd made the withdrawal on the Wednesday and usually the money hits my account within 2-3 working days, would be handy if it was in before the weekend as it means more bananas in the weekend shopping. Since being a victim of identity theft a few years back i've always been careful in keeping track of my accounts online so i began to panic when i logged into my online bank account and noticed that my balance was actually less than when i checked in the morning!

I clicked on recent transactions and there were two debits taken for £100.00 to "www.pstars.com" - I immediately rang my bank as i knew that i hadn't deposited to stars in nearly 2 months and when i had deposited never for an amount of £100. Also all the transactions from the last 6 months or so i remember checking against my statement so i knew they were all accounted for. My bank told me that they had received request for payment from the beneficairy and acted accordingly so any problems i would need to take it up with them.

So Friday night as soon as i got home from work about 6pm i emailed stars support, usually stars support is quite good and responds within a few hours - 3&1/2 hours later i receive a response but it was just a "we've passed it to our cashier department" email. Another 2 hours after that i got an email saying "withdrawals can take between 3-10 business days to appear but please provide us with more information about the money we have taken from your account". Thankfully the withdrawal had appeared in my account later that evening but stuff that, they've taken money out of my account without my consent and now my account is worse off than it was this morning!!

Saturday morning i received another email from their payment. "please can you send us a statement showing name of account holder, account holders address, account holders account number (last 4 digits) and recent transactions showing the debits leaving the account". Now having being a victim of identity fraud i'm not best pleased about sending having to send this but then seeing as how they are the ones taking money out of my account without my consent then i guess they already have the details in question!! I send copies of my recent statement showing everything they require and within an hour i receive a standard "thanks for the details, we will look into it and get back to you as soon as we have an answer" response.

I hear nothing then from Saturday morning or all day sunday - fair enough, its weekend - probably not the best time to ask questions about accounts. I check my email at work even though i'm not supposed to but still nothing until i'm about to leave for the day - and this was their response.....

"Hello Matt,

I am emailing to inform you that we are now aware that a technical issue has
occurred which has resulted in some of our players being charged in error.

We are still investigating this at present and hope to have a resolution
shortly.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused you.

If you would like any further assistance with this or any other matter,
please feel free to contact us again.

Best Regards,

William
PokerStars Payment Services"

What?!?!? Is that it? When am i going to get my money back? What assurances can you give that i'm not going to wake up tomorrow and find another amount missing from my account? Who will pay any charges if any of my payments are returned "unpaid" while i wait for you to pay me back? These were various questions i asked quickly before i left work.

I got home and my response had been intercepted by the pokerstars support team as i had received this response.............

"Hello Matt,

Thank you for your email.

I will forward your inquiry to our Payment Services Department and they
should get back to you within the next few business days with more
information.

We regret any inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

Regards,

Emely
PokerStars Support Team"

i was beginning to get a little annoyed now so i sent them the following reply

"Evening Emely

My email was sent direct to the Payment Services Department and i'm sorry but "a few business days" before i get a response is not good enough - you have taken money out of my account without my consent and i need that money back in my account now, i have bills to pay!

If i incur any charges with my bank because something is returned unpaid while i wait for you to pay back the money you have taken out of my account without my consent then i will forward those charges to you

Regards
matt674
Matt Doyle"

I thought this had done the trick as within 25 minutes i received a respose - well until i read it!

"Hello Matt,

Thank you for writing.

We are truly sorry for the inconvenience caused by this technical error.

Unfortunately, we cannot assure you when we will fix this situation. I
understand your frustration but for now there is nothing we can do.

On the other hand, if your bank account has been over drafted, please send us a
scanned copy or screen capture of your statement in order to refund those fees.

Your patience and understanding are always appreciated as this can take a few
business days for being resolved.

Again, I can only apologize for the inconvenience and do not hesitate to
contact us for more assistance.

Regards,

Haydee
PokerStars Payment Services"

which to me sounded like they are still trying to fob me off - so i replied

"Evening Haydee,

What do you mean you cannot assure me when you will fix this situation? Its quite simple - you have taken £200 out of my account without my consent so now you pay £200 back into my account immediately otherwise i will take the matter to the police

Regards
matt674
Matt Doyle"

I've yet to receive a reply to this email so we'll see tomorrow if i have to take the matter further. Stars was the only poker site i used to play but if this isn't resolved quickly then i'll never play there again!

forgot to add that while i was talking to my bank on saturday morning they informed me that the two payments in question were actually dated 29th Oct 2008 - i asked my bank why they would pay a request more than a year old and they said the date is irrelavent. i checked my bank statement from October 2008 and sure enough on 29th Oct two payments for £100 were debited from my account to pokerstars - so it looks like they have requested the same payments twice

i pointed this out to them on saturday but they have failed to acknowledge this

same thing has been happening on FT

Matt

Just checked mine and its exactly the same.

Deposited £40 on 29/10/08 and just been charged the same on 29/10/09, and I know I haven't deposited!

Nice email from me coming up!

many thanks sir!

Given how tight banking procedures are generally I think this seems unlikely - it might be worth trying to find out if they are meant to take note of the date.

i.e. it may still be worthwhile pursuing the bank for their error

Its exactly the same with mine, Internet banking FTW. Also, there is no relevance with dates iirc.

Just checked my account to see if I've been done as well.

Interestingly I've depositted £900 over the last week or so and they haven't taken a penny :)

If you want Pokerstars to be a little more responsive, post this on 2+2.

so it looks like it is date specific rather than any deposit ever - all we have to do now is get our money back

i remember when i went on a sick run in dec 2007 making a few large withdrawals on the same day - i wonder if i can get my bank to request them again while i wait for my payments to be re-imbursed?

even if i have to create an account to post it?

normally if someone creates an account on here to post its usually removed within 30 mins and stored in the mods "personal" folders :D

1.  Go back to your bank and file a unauthorised payment dispute in writing.   There is a set form, they cannot stop you doing this and have to investigate fully.  dont let them fob you off

2.  Post all this on 2x2 and as many other forums as you can

3.  contact poker stars with links to all the forum threads

blimey - how many boards!!

which would normally be best to post on?

this one first up http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/

First thing to do is phone your bank, say this transaction was taken in error without your authorisation and demand that they recall it.

They will almost certainly say that they can't do it - but they can, it might be a matter of luck whether you get through to someone who knows that they can and is willing to do it. But it would definitely be the quickest way of sorting it out.

I must be in the wrong section already then because the first boards on my screen are 2+2 magazine forum and 2+2 Bonus program ???

and scrolling up and down page there is no internet board :D

cheers

This confuses me. If they're not meant to look at the date - couldn't a company just resubmit the same transaction every day for a week or so, withdraw all the money they've taken and scarper?

Not expecting anybody to particularly know the answer - but it does seem odd that in such a highly regulated industry that the bank could just accept the same transaction twice, one year apart, when it isn't a recurring payment, without any procedural mistakes being made.

further update from stars - again no update on when i get my money back

Hello Matt,

Thank you for playing at PokerStars.

We apologize very much for this inconvenience. We can assure you that your
money is safe with PokerStars. We are currently working with our processor
in order to solve this situation as soon as possible. We kindly ask you to
give us a few business days to complete this investigation. As soon as the
issue is solved, we will send you an email.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any questions or comments.

Regards,

JohnnyC
PokerStars Payment Services

Banks are just fkin sht.  These pricks bankrupt the country are now trying to screw ppl (again) with overdraft charges.  You tell them that a payment is unauthorised and they go "well what do you expect us to do about it".  

from that page click on 'two plus two poker forums' at the top just under the ad banner

well signed up and posted it on 2+2 - though apart from here the only other forum i'm a member of is APAT and they are all blondites anyway :D

i didnt know there were other forums about - i'm a one forum monkey, once i've found the best no point in looking at the rest.......

(thats 2 bananas at the next blonde bash Tikay! :)up)

i still regret the day

you're on the wrong forum if you want Tikay to read your message :D

so BigArmo keeps telling me ;)

oh i forgot - he's barred from here now isn't he after the recent "clique" meeting :D

i will undo his ban in a few days

post it on pocketfives.com too

Hello Asa,

Thank you for your email.

We are aware of some issues that are occurring with SOLO deposits, we are currently
investigating this and we appreciate your understanding.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

Justine
P♠kerStars Cashier Specialist

hmmmmm

solo deposits. fnar fnar :D

pfffffffff

Is this just Solo deposits?

I have a couple of hundred quid pending on my account but I only deposit with a maestro card.

Could be just drunken spending though ;-)

Ill be interested to see if it is Pokerstars.
Ill also be interested to see if HSBC are as good as Amex with these things.

I had Pixmania refuse to refund something I hadnt received and Amex just instacredited my account and said they would sort the ballbags out on my behalf.

U should try porn if you're struggling with "solo deposits" Asa...

todays email - pretty much more of the same

still yet to admit what the problem is

still yet to acknowledge that precautions are in place to avoid it happening again

still yet to tell me when i will get my money back

seeing bank tomorrow - will see what excuses they try and fob me off with

"Hello Matt,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused and we are sorry you
feel this way.

From the email provided by my co-worker, an investigation is in the process
and please bear in mind that your incident is a priority to us. Kindly allow
a few business days for the process to conclude.

Please let us know if you have any questions or need further assistance.

Regards,
Francis
PokerStars Payment Services"

Pretty much the same email I received Matt

I would suggest that your next email to them gives them a specific time frame to sort it out, or you'll be forced to take the matter further.

i did that yesterday - same response

KK... I've decided that I'd give them till Friday, as imo, that gives them more than enough time to sort out my account. That, and I've got 2 mega busy days coming up.

done the same to me for $500 but the card i havereg with stars i cancelled 6 mnths ago through bank and they still authourised it ....

Errrr have none of you taken this up with your bank rather than pokerstars?

People sure are allowed to make unauthorised charges to your cards!

I am really surprised Stars didn't deal with this straight away.

Pay your customers back the money you have taken first, investigate afterwards.

This is pretty much what I said, but the banks insist they did nothing wrong.

I still think this is unlikely.

Well called into the local HSBC branch to where i work at lunchtime only to find it was a "service only" branch and they don't have any advisers who can assist - "you can use the free phone though on the wall" was the only advice on offer from the counter staff.

So i ring the online banking service - my first port of call (call centre) lasted 20 minutes before the person on the other end of the line actually understood what "taking payments twice" actually meant - got to talk to someone else who's only answer was "let me put you on hold while i speak to the maestro payment department", turns out they were no good so she came back on just to tell me that she was going to put me on hold while she spoke to someone else. They were no use so she took my number and told me someone would ring me back this evening after work with an explanation how they could approve a payment that had already been paid.

She did ring back while i was at work - but only to tell me that my account had been credited with 2 x £100 payments from "www.pstars.com" but she still couldn't explain why they had duplicated the payment.

Got home tonight and sure enough the payments are back into my account - still no word from stars though with an explanation or assurances that it wont happen again, no phone call from the bank either :(

watch this space

yeah my £40 has been credited as well. As I've said before, they've got till Friday for the email....

Do you reckon the people who withdrew in Oct 2008 got a 2nd withdrawal :) ?

sigh, get home from work tonight to find my bank balance different again for the third time this week - i check as now my balance is £200 better off. As well as stars returning 2 x £100 payments back into my account and my bank HSBC ringing me to tell me about the stars payments yesterday i find that today i have another 2 x £100 credits on my account - this time from the HSBC Switch team.

Still no word from either stars or my bank as to what has happened but the payments were claimed from my Switch card which expired about 9 months ago and was replaced with a Visa debit card so i have no idea why my bank have repaid the items also (i doubt they are suffering guilty conscience! :D) - as with Asa i gave them both til Friday to come up with answers so will wait and see if they come back to me before chasing them again.

A mate of mine in work got 4 payments from Poker Stars and nothing taken out..

GG him

Blatant brag..!..:)

two brags squeezed into five words I reckon. good work!

I only count one..............

Hello Asa,

Thank you for your email.

I have escalated your email to the Payments department for review so that
you can get a more detailed response to your enquiry as quickly as possible.

Thank you for your patience and for choosing PokerStars! If you have any
other questions please do not hesitate in contacting us.

Best regards,

Owen
PokerStars Cashier Specialist

Hello Asa,

Thank you for your email.

I am glad to hear that you have received the funds back into your account. Unfortunately, this appears to have been a temporary issue that our processor had and should not occur again in the future. Steps are being taken to ensure that a repeat issue does not occur.

With regards to compensation, this is being conducted on an individual basis. If you have incurred charges in relation to this issue then we will glady look at bank statements showing the charges and refund accordingly.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.

Best regards

Andrew
PokerStars Payment Services

The words, going round in circles seems to apply...

Hello Asa,

Thank you for your email.

I have credited your PokerStars account with 500FPPs as a gesture of goodwill. Unfortunately, we cannot give any cash compensation unless a financial loss has incurred.

I hope this goes some way to compensating you for this obvious inconenience. Please accept our sincere apologies.

Please let us know if you require any further assistance.

Best regards

Andrew
PokerStars Payment Services

Marv.

I think this translates as;

Some idiot processed the file for a day in Oct in 2008 instead of correct date in Oct 2009

We sacked the moron, and hid the previous files in dark hole that no one will find again.

Well Asa you've received more notifiction than i have from stars - i'm still waiting for my first email since Tuesday :(

i did however get a phone call from my bank, HSBC - which went something along the lines of

"hello is that mr doyle"

"yes it is, who is calling?"

"its xxx from the HSBC bank, i spoke to you on Wednesday regarding the Maestro payments taken from your account"

"yes i remember"

"good, well i recognize your voice so i don't need to ask you any of the security questions"

(not sure how seeing as  didnt recognize her voice and no doubt she has spoken to more people since Wednesday than i have, glad to see they are keeping up their standards on keeping peoples accounts safe!)

"i'm ringing just to let you know that our Maestro payment team have made two payments into your account to cover the loss of money while the issue is resolved, however i see from your account that the payments have been paid back in"

"yes i know, i saw them yesterday - but you knew the payments had been paid back into my account as you rang to tell me about them Wednesday afternoon"

"yes i did"

"but the Maestro payments were paid into my account the day after the pokerstars payments"

"yes they were"

"so you are ringing me to tell me that your maestro department have paid money into my account to cover the loss of money two days after you rang me to tell me that the money had been paid into my account"

"yes just to let you know as the maestro payments are only temporary and will be removed once the pokerstars money is paid back into your account"

"but you know the pokerstars money is back into my account, you told me that three hours after i rang to complain"

"yes, but our Maestro department is a different department to mine"

"do they not have access to the same account details as you?"

"yes"

"so they will have seen themselves that the money had been paid in, still they put the temporary payments into my account even after you had called me to tell me that the payments were back into my account. Now you are ringing me to tell me that temporary payments have been paid into my account and now you are going to remove them"

<silence>

"and do you have any update on why the payments left my account in the first place"

"no but i will let you know as soon as our Maestro team have resolved the issue, have a good weekend. Goodbye"

i'm seriously beginning to think i will be safer keeping all my money under the mattress and going back to the good old days of using cash to pay for everything!!

Just keep sending emails Matt... ;)

yeah i think i will - just paid a visit to the VIP store to see what i can spend my 500fpp points on should i be lucky enough to receive any kind of compensation, i could only see two items that are worth 500fpps

(a) a keyring

(b) a one time password sheet

i wonder if the password sheet can be placed on my bank account to stop unwanted hackers taking money out of my account? :D

you need to be making up stories for stars like how you couldn't afford to go on a planned weekend away cos they nicked your money so could you have a signed greg raymer tshirt as compo

500 fpps as compensation?

For all the time and nerous energy and distress I would have thought $500 was more appropriate.

They are taking the piss imo.

That would probably quite an expensive t-shirt, given the amount material required to make it.

having emailed them again tonight for an update (failing of course to mention that i've read other people's responses as to what had happened) this was the reply i got.....

Hello Matt,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused and we are sorry you
feel this way.

Please understand that processor technical issues are beyond our control and
our processors provide the best service to our customers as much as
possible. As mentioned before, since it is a technical issue, sometimes we
cannot provide an exact time frame as this would contradict.

Kindly note that we investigate all customer concerns seriously and
PokerStars has an effective system to counter mistakes and issues as
indicated by our communication to our processors.

Our staff are here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 365 days a year to
answer your questions and meet your needs. Please email us back at with your
questions, and we will be happy to answer them to the best of our ability.

Please let us know if you have any questions or need further assistance.

Regards,
Francis
PokerStars Payment Services

"Please understand that processor technical issues are beyond our control and
our processors provide the best service to our customers as much as
possible."

Well if this is the best service you could provide i'm not sure i want to see the worst and i doubt i can trust your processors ever again

"As mentioned before, since it is a technical issue, sometimes we
cannot provide an exact time frame as this would contradict."

This is the first time in a week you remotely come anywhere close to mentioning what the problem was (and this email hardly provides me with an explanation) so not sure where the as mentions before comes into it

"Our staff are here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 365 days a year to
answer your questions and meet your needs. Please email us back at with your
questions, and we will be happy to answer them to the best of our ability."

In all the emails i've sent not one of my questions has been answered!!

i give up with them - i'll never deposit another penny on there again to play poker, though no doubt they are hardly going to lose any sleep over it judging by their constant vague fobbing off emails

:(

Long while since I have posted here, but exactly the same happened for me for a significant sum (for me anyway, clearly not for pokerstars).  The several hundred quid took me into an unauthorised overdraft and caused me significant distress.  I have now got my money back.

I emailed them several times this week and ultimately laid out the sequence of events for them and was referred to a 'customer service specialist'.  Pokerstars response?  'Let us know what your bank charges are and we will consider refunding you'.  They will not offer any compensation for the time I have wasted this week talking to my bank and worrying about paying bills. 

In the course of 6 emails they have not explained how this happened (though it is fairly obvious) or offered any assurance it will not happen again. 

It seems that only a 'few' UK customers who deposited by switch, maestro or solo in the last week of October 2008 were affected and they clearly do not think those customers are worth treating properly. 

I have only ever heard good things about Pokerstars customer service before - this is the first time I have ever had an issue that necessitated their intervention and I am disgusted with how they have treated me.

Whilst I am sure my custom means nothing to them, I intend to never play there again on principle.

It's always been lies, i dunno how they managed to get that reputation in the first place, all these other sites that offer a phone number and get no praise then Stars where there is no number and they take days to reply.

then there is blonde where kev is there to handle your problem personally