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Without googling (and if you know for sure don't spoil it for those who don't know) how old would you say Man Utd defender Wes Brown is?

28? he's been around ages

i would say 3 or 4 years younger he came on the scene very young but he has been around awhile

I heard this on the radio today. I was surprised.

Around what Gatso said late 20's.

31

He's 30.

FFS, I must be getting old.

I would have guessed 24 or 25.

He won his first England cap in 1999!!!!!!!!!!

28

bit of an unfulfilled careeer wouldn't you say?

Injuries, loss of form etc....


I too am surprised he is 30

Got to question his ambition.

He's spent his whole career as third or fourth choice centre back at Old Trafford.

You would have thought when he reached 25 or 26 he would have gone to Fergie and asked "Am I ever going to be first choice?" and when Fergie said no, asked for a transfer.

Surely better to be first choice at Aston Villa, Tottenham or Everton than a career bench warmer getting a medal or two every year but not actually earning it?

he was born in manchester. no idea if he's a utd fan but if he is then it makes his choice to stay at the club a very understandable one

Phil Neville was in exactly the same situation and left to go to Everton.

I think he is now regarded as a much better player by most followers of football now than he ever was while at Old Trafford.

EDIT*****************************

JESUS F CHRIST!

Now for your bonus point... how many England caps do you think Phil Neville has won?

mid 40s...id guess 46.

far, far too many.remember him hitting 50 so 55ish

Yeah, it's 59.

I don't follow international football virtually at all.

But the fact Phil Neville has 59 caps and his brother has 84 (!!?!?!?!?!?!?) suggests there are far far far too many meaningless matches.

what makes you think phil neville is a utd fan? I know a couple of guys who used to knock around with gary as kids and who played cricket with phil and always got the impression they followed city and bury (though I never actually asked the question so could be wrong)

I have no idea if he's a Utd fan.. just thought it was a similar situation that Phil Neville reached a similar stage of his career and wasn't first choice at Man U and he decided to leave.

The fact his brother was at Utd at the same time was surely a big incentive to stay than being a supporter.

Wish I could have that lack of ambition and get paid £50,000 a week for it.

I have the lack of ambition, so am 50% of the way there...just can't be arsed to take it any futher.

He's played in around 50% of games in seasons where he hasn't had injuries (34 league games in 07/8) and accumulated medals for
5 x Prem League,
2 x CL,
2 x FA Cup
and a Mickey Mouse Cup

he's fought back after injuries and whilst he could no doubt have gone off to Newcastle or Villa a season or so back he stuck at the club he started with. His kid brother is in the Academy team too.

How is that a lack of ambition?

wes brown is problery getting more money as 3rd or 4th choice at man u that he would get being 1st choice at villa or spurs

phil N got most of his caps pre the move to everton

Does it really matter if he would earn 10k less at villa or spurs or whoever?

Surely a professional footballer wants to play football, not sit on the bench and only play in Carling Cup, meaningless Champions League games or home games against relegation fodder.

if someone was to offer me 10k a week more to warm the bench then i would say yeah why not that 500k a year 10 years that 5 million
hey thats enough live off for rest of my life and doesnt include the other 50-60k a week i am getting

Steve Harper at Newcastle is the one I always think of, is it something like 100 league games in 15 years!

Does that mean that all second/third choice keepers lack ambition?

Surely professional footballers want to win trophies?

Yeah but 10k extra a week, isn't going to change Phil Neville/Wes Brown etc standard of life now or in the future. They are pretty much set up for life already assuming no major leaks/bad investments.

Therefore taking a pay cut to get to play week in/week out would be my preference, though I can see why someone players would want to stay with the team they have followed all their lives.

were using 10k as an example how much is brown on and how much could he get at another team could be 25%  or more pay cut i know i wouldnt take that so i have to work harder

Thinking of it in % terms is wrong Iron.

Sure if you were earning £300 a week, you would have to have bloody good reasons to change jobs and accept £225.

But the difference between £40k a week and £30k is much smaller. With both after 5 years you will be set up for life.

Surely it's what you want to achieve as a player? You can look in the trophy cabinet and see all those medals, but in your heart you know you don't deserve to own them.

really depend on how bad a gambler the player is
was it owen that was in debt for 500k a few season back

if it was me i would be needing the extra money to pay off my poker debts

I wonder if players in their twilight years ever think: "I have one more season left in me, let's go for a paycut and play at dogshit park - or 4 seasons if I stay here and warm the bench"?

more likey think they have 4 seasons left if they play in a lower league and 1 season left if they stay at top

look at roy keane though he could extend his carear playing in a lower league team

but after getting kicked off the park by every donkey in the SPL he realised it was over

That's totally different.

I can quite understand a player with shot knees and a wife with a credit card habit taking the easy option for one last big payday.

I'm talking about 25 year olds with the best years of their careers ahead of them.

Sorry, but that's just not right.

It undervalues the concept of the team. Besides which, your issue appears to be that Wes Brown in particular doesn't deserve the medals for some reason. Patently untrue, his contribution, when fit, over the past few seasons has been solid. He's versatile and smart, and should play a lot this season.

I agree with David here, been very harsh on poor Wesley here , the lad has been plagued by injuries all his career but imo he upped his game in the last 3 or 4 years and was playing solidly at right back just cant hold down his spot for too long before an injury set in, but Im sure he can sleep easy at night and isnt worried that deep down he didnt deserve them IMO he definitely did.

I'm sure Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Louis Saha and countless others could have taken new contracts at Old Trafford but instead decided to actually play football while they still had the chance.

ignoring his breakthrough season when he only played twice, the season he was injured for and this part season brown has played 10 full seasons he's made 316 appearances, been to 2 world cups, played 20 odd times for his country, played in an fa cup final win, a champions league final win and won the premier league 5 times

not sure he would've made more appearances anywhere else and certainly wouldn't have achieved more

if (and it is only an if) he's done all that at his boyhood club then I doubt there'll be many footballers who've ever retired happier with their careers

By the age of thirty you would expect an England international to have played over 500 games wouldn't you?

I'm probably being a bit harsh of Brown, because he's certainly not the only player that could be accused of this, I was just astonished he was 30 and still at Old Trafford despite never really being first choice at any position.

When fit he's always played enough games to make me think he wasn't just there for the money>

Interestingly both Gary and Phil Neville have captained England.

wasn't phil's for just a few minutes? one of the shortest stints anyone's ever had in the job

Yeh it was the game where it was getting lobbed from player to player.

hes big
hes bad
its wesley brown

the hardest man, in all of town
with orage hair beware...
come and have a go if you dare.

Ha.  I've often suggested him as the dullest "top" player in the Premiership.  Earns a fortune for the best team of the last decade but most people forget he's even there, never mind earning a mint and loads of medals.

Would rather play 30-35 games a season for Liverpool in all comps than 100 anywhere else.