blonde poker forum

its a snap imo, 30bbs, you have shown you will 3bet fold/ pass to big raises.

this

we can't be 3b folding from a 30x stack vs an active player

We can I reckon. But not with TT. You gotta call this.

We can I reckon. But not with TT. You gotta call this.

i knew in my head i was 3 bet snapping aginst this guy just wanted a to hear a few good players views on this thanks guys....i snapped him and he rolls over aj off and binks the j on the turn....

mbn to be ur hero

cliffs on greekstein ad musclez relationship, all i know is both sitting next to eachother at dtd on blonde....

IMO you 3b is too big, You can 3b smaller to 12k - 13.5k. It has the same effect but you are saving potentially 4k which is vital to you at this stage. Also you don't want to be playing such a big pot OOP.

I understand that you may want to 3b bigger to commit yourself, but I think against such an active player its not so significant.

You will find he reacts to a 13k 3b the same as he does to a 16k. Remember the active online kid knows his own image so he won't be 4b'ing as light as his current game may portray.

So as played its a fold for me. It's a slow clock, you have time to wait for better spots

IMO you 3b is too big, You can 3b smaller to 12k - 13.5k. It has the same effect but you are saving potentially 4k which is vital to you at this stage. Also you don't want to be playing such a big pot OOP.

I understand that you may want to 3b bigger to commit yourself, but I think against such an active player its not so significant.

You will find he reacts to a 13k 3b the same as he does to a 16k. Remember the active online kid knows his own image so he won't be 4b'ing as light as his current game may portray.

So as played its a fold for me. It's a slow clock, you have time to wait for better spots

japes!

3bet call is perfect ldo

they got to know each other well when muszlesz was sat either side of cos at dtd

Gatters!

IMO you 3b is too big, You can 3b smaller to 12k - 13.5k. It has the same effect but you are saving potentially 4k which is vital to you at this stage. Also you don't want to be playing such a big pot OOP.

I understand that you may want to 3b bigger to commit yourself, but I think against such an active player its not so significant.

You will find he reacts to a 13k 3b the same as he does to a 16k. Remember the active online kid knows his own image so he won't be 4b'ing as light as his current game may portray.

So as played its a fold for me. It's a slow clock, you have time to wait for better spots

what does value shoving mean?

does it matter wot i 3 bet folded the 1st time ??

why does it matter tho......skolsuper are u the player that i played this hand against ??

no i was not suprised he shoved and my plan was always to call a shove i just think his hand is marginal for shoving thinkin he is winnin...maybe he just wanted me to pass and he was suprised when i snap him

no i was not suprised he shoved and my plan was always to call a shove i just think his hand is marginal for shoving thinkin he is winnin...maybe he just wanted me to pass and he was suprised when i snap him

from any player or this specific player ?

No, it's just that if you really don't understand the shove with AJ, any further hand analysis on this thread is pretty much like rearranging deckchairs on the titanic. I'll try to explain..

Live players' view:

You can either get it in good or get it in bad. Good players get it in good. If you do get it in good, for example correctly putting your opponent on AK and calling a 5bet shove with pocket threes or getting AA vs KK for 9bbs, you get a 1. When you get a 1, you deserve to win 100% of the pot, anything less is a suck-out.

If you get it in bad, like the AJ in your hand or the kings in the earlier example, you get a 0. Internet players often get it in bad and rely on getting lucky hitting 20 to 1 outers to make money, however there are less outdraws in live poker so they struggle.

Analysed this way, your TT is a call, he's often overplaying two big cards like AK (big pair vs 'just a drawing hand', that's a 1 TYVM) or maybe shoving a smaller pair. In the unlikely event he has a bigger pair then you get a 0, try harder next time, maybe look at him and see if he looks like he has a big pair. Definitely more 1s than 0s though. However, you're never calling with A9 or KQ or anything worse than AJ so he never gets 1s, only 0s, so surely he must be bluffing. You've shown strength by backraising him so his bluff is a terrible play.

Good players' view:

Poker isn't so black and white and rarely is a bet purely as a bluff or purely for value. When you make an all in bet, your equity in the hand is made up of two components, your fold equity and your expectation when called. Fold equity is the amount you win if your opponent folds, multiplied by the chance that they will fold. Your expectation when called depends on the relative strength of your hand and your opponents calling range. So, in your hand:

Your calling range is roughly 88+ AQ and AK judging by your level of disdain for the AJ shove. Against this range AJo is 31.1% (from Pokerstove, if you don't have it, get it.) This range is only 5.6% of hands so even if you only raise like 1 in 15 of your other hands, that's still 6.3% of the time, meaning the chance you will fold to a shove is about 55% (the ratio of good hands to bad hands).

The amount he will win if you fold is roughly 25k (his 5.2k, your 16.7k, and the blinds + antes). His showdown equity with AJ is 31.1% of 135k, minus the 62k it costs him to shove, which equals -20k.

55% of the time he wins 25k, 45% of the time he loses 20k (on average), taken together his total expectation for the shove is +4.75k. As you can see the reason that this is a positive expectation play is because of the times you fold, so in that way his shove is as a bluff. However if he holds 72o instead of AJo, his expectation vs your range is only 20.4%, which then makes his expectation a loss of 1.75k, so his shove is also based on the strength of his hand and is therefore, in part, a 'value shove'.

Hope this helps.

No, it's just that if you really don't understand the shove with AJ, any further hand analysis on this thread is pretty much like rearranging deckchairs on the titanic. I'll try to explain..

Live players' view:

You can either get it in good or get it in bad. Good players get it in good. If you do get it in good, for example correctly putting your opponent on AK and calling a 5bet shove with pocket threes or getting AA vs KK for 9bbs, you get a 1. When you get a 1, you deserve to win 100% of the pot, anything less is a suck-out.

If you get it in bad, like the AJ in your hand or the kings in the earlier example, you get a 0. Internet players often get it in bad and rely on getting lucky hitting 20 to 1 outers to make money, however there are less outdraws in live poker so they struggle.

Analysed this way, your TT is a call, he's often overplaying two big cards like AK (big pair vs 'just a drawing hand', that's a 1 TYVM) or maybe shoving a smaller pair. In the unlikely event he has a bigger pair then you get a 0, try harder next time, maybe look at him and see if he looks like he has a big pair. Definitely more 1s than 0s though. However, you're never calling with A9 or KQ or anything worse than AJ so he never gets 1s, only 0s, so surely he must be bluffing. You've shown strength by backraising him so his bluff is a terrible play.

Good players' view:

Poker isn't so black and white and rarely is a bet purely as a bluff or purely for value. When you make an all in bet, your equity in the hand is made up of two components, your fold equity and your expectation when called. Fold equity is the amount you win if your opponent folds, multiplied by the chance that they will fold. Your expectation when called depends on the relative strength of your hand and your opponents calling range. So, in your hand:

Your calling range is roughly 88+ AQ and AK judging by your level of disdain for the AJ shove. Against this range AJo is 31.1% (from Pokerstove, if you don't have it, get it.) This range is only 5.6% of hands so even if you only raise like 1 in 15 of your other hands, that's still 6.3% of the time, meaning the chance you will fold to a shove is about 55% (the ratio of good hands to bad hands).

The amount he will win if you fold is roughly 25k (his 5.2k, your 16.7k, and the blinds + antes). His showdown equity with AJ is 31.1% of 135k, minus the 62k it costs him to shove, which equals -20k.

55% of the time he wins 25k, 45% of the time he loses 20k (on average), taken together his total expectation for the shove is +4.75k. As you can see the reason that this is a positive expectation play is because of the times you fold, so in that way his shove is as a bluff. However if he holds 72o instead of AJo, his expectation vs your range is only 20.4%, which then makes his expectation a loss of 1.75k, so his shove is also based on the strength of his hand and is therefore, in part, a 'value shove'.

Hope this helps.