blonde poker forum

$6.50 turbo 45 mans...

Scenario 1:

First level, a regular player at the 45mans (who isbreak even+) open shoves, whats the lowest of your calling range?

Scenario 2:

Mid position, stack 1250, at 100/50, what is the bottm of your shoving range? (If say the big blind and sb both have 9-15 bbs, as obviously this could sometimes been dependent on the sb/bb stacks?)

Scenario 3:

UTG/UTG+1

15 big blinds, what do you do with 22-77? and KQ sooooted?

appreciate any help as these are areas that kee coming up, and i am never sure what to do, and obviously i am looking to improve my game in these.

I don't claim to be an expert but...

1) QQ+ - If a good player does this then as far as i'm aware it's usually with a strong hand expecting a donkish AT call or something.

2) AT+, all pps, 2 paint, scs 78+

3) Depends if there's antes and how many on the table. On a full table without antes i'm probably folding these hands. Shorter handed with antes I'm prob shoving them. Though maybe not 55-.

And now for someone to tell me I don't know what i'm talking about :)

Thanks for your views,

okay sc3 isnt very clear...for an 8/9 seated table, and a 5/6 seated table, both with antes, and both without?

1. These idiot regs who do this are doing with pretty strong ranges, under some bizarre impression this is the best way to play a premium hand early. Therefore kk+, qq is a vomit in your mouth fold.

2. Pretty close to big of a stack to shove but I probably would shove a10+,55+. Whether I shove QQ+ would be depend on table dynamics, the more regs there are the more i am likely to just shove my whole range and the more donks the more likely i am to open to 250.

3. Fold the lot, too hard to play post flop and you can rarely call a shove unless the 3bettor is short.


Editted probs being a bit nitty in q2.

How does the situation change if table was 5/6 seated with antes, like CF said? If it does? too bad to open shove 15 bbs with kq sooted or 77?


Well you both have changed something i am doing wrong then, today there was a shove first or second hand in the 45 mans in two of them, and i called in both with JJ and AK in the other...both times was up against KK, lol.

pretty much the same. although i might be a bit tigher with open blasting 12 bigs. 12 bigs can sometimes be an ok stack in this type of format.

i dont think u are mate. open blasting hands like a10 and 5's is shizz imo. esp in ep

With antes you can shove 44+ and the kqs profitably.

5 or 6 handed without antes I much prefer opening the kqs to the small pps as it plays alot better on a number of flops.

Nah did a sngwiz check i was wrong.

just realised these are turbs. never play em. i'll shut up.

thanks for the quick responses.

one other scenario,

10/11 left, same format, 45 man turbo

you have 4.5-6k in the sb and it is folded round to you, at 600/300, are you shoving ATC no matter what the BB stack is?

Pretty much, may fold the bottom 10% of my range. Unless the guy is a complete maniac and then I might only shove top 70%.

I'm calling with QQ in Q1, don't come across this often though. Most of time there is an open shove this early it's a weaker player and then I call with AK too as they spuz with AQ here like this quite a lot

In Q2 I'm a bit nittier than Longy and might laydown ATo and 55 (I don't play with antes obv)

Defo laydown everything in Q3

Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen an AA, KK first level open shove from a breakeven or winning reg in either the $26s or the $75s on Full Tilt.

Seen a few do it with AK though

obv losing players and 'unkowns' do it with anything.

Ooops, I 100% shove AA KK here.

I do in the $3.25s lol

Thread hijack oncoming hope you don't mind  ;)

Can i just add a couple more hands to this all standard just want to check as i've also just started out playing the 45mans

PS I'm not being results orientated

Hand 1

Due to icm is this a fold vs unknown or just standard ?

***** Hand History for Game 37742983389 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 06, 01:15:02 ET 2010
Table 229279568 4 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: madein1984 ( $10462.00 USD )
Seat 2: putskierules ( $8455.00 USD )
Seat 3: cutko ( $11445.00 USD )
Seat 4: Glatzkopp07 ( $4675.00 USD )
Seat 5: DoTa-MAk ( $11820.00 USD )
Seat 7: mondonewc ( $8660.00 USD )
Seat 8: goncpm ( $6873.00 USD )
Seat 9: Guster197 ( $5110.00 USD )
madein1984 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
putskierules posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
cutko posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
Glatzkopp07 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
DoTa-MAk posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
mondonewc posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
goncpm posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
Guster197 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
DoTa-MAk posts small blind [$400.00 USD].
mondonewc posts big blind [$800.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mondonewc [  As Qh ]
goncpm folds
Guster197 raises [$5060.00 USD]
madein1984 folds
putskierules folds
cutko folds
Glatzkopp07 folds
DoTa-MAk folds
mondonewc calls [$4260.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 8d, Jh ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4h ]
mondonewc shows [As, Qh ]
Guster197 shows [Jd, Ad ]
Guster197 wins $10920.00 USD from main pot

Hang 2

Standard again or fold this early in comp

***** Hand History for Game 37739106682 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 06, 11:42:53 ET 2010
Table 229263931 3 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 2: NickAces12 ( $1770.00 USD )
Seat 3: MateusMouraa ( $1225.00 USD )
Seat 4: pokernutdad ( $1430.00 USD )
Seat 5: daredeivil82 ( $1815.00 USD )
Seat 6: mondonewc ( $1470.00 USD )
Seat 7: myrren ( $2690.00 USD )
Seat 8: hrom1943 ( $1505.00 USD )
Seat 9: CelicaNollie ( $3100.00 USD )
daredeivil82 posts small blind [$25.00 USD].
mondonewc posts big blind [$50.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mondonewc [  Jc Jd ]
myrren folds
hrom1943 calls [$50.00 USD]
CelicaNollie raises [$200.00 USD]
NickAces12 folds
MateusMouraa folds
pokernutdad folds
daredeivil82 folds
mondonewc raises [$1420.00 USD]
hrom1943 folds
CelicaNollie calls [$1270.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 2d, Js ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
mondonewc shows [Jc, Jd ]
CelicaNollie shows [Qs, Qh ]
CelicaNollie wins $3015.00 USD from main pot

Hand 3

Is this fine or is he too short and so will call to wide for this to be +ev

***** Hand History for Game 37742052920 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 06, 12:53:22 ET 2010
Table 229271224 1 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 2: CPAkid ( $22997.00 USD )
Seat 4: mondonewc ( $18207.00 USD )
Seat 8: Netter17 ( $8475.00 USD )
Seat 9: mitflamen ( $17821.00 USD )
CPAkid posts ante of [$75.00 USD].
mondonewc posts ante of [$75.00 USD].
Netter17 posts ante of [$75.00 USD].
mitflamen posts ante of [$75.00 USD].
mondonewc posts small blind [$800.00 USD].
Netter17 posts big blind [$1600.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mondonewc [  8s 6d ]
mitflamen folds
CPAkid folds
mondonewc raises [$17332.00 USD]
Netter17 calls [$6800.00 USD]
mondonewc wins $9732.00 USD
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, Qh, 6s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
mondonewc shows [8s, 6d ]
Netter17 shows [8d, Qc ]
Netter17 wins $17100.00 USD from main pot

Hand 4

Is this fine with our stack size ?

***** Hand History for Game 37741482518 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 06, 12:40:30 ET 2010
Table 229271224 4 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Netter17 ( $3825.00 USD )
Seat 3: volcanoz76 ( $2262.00 USD )
Seat 4: mondonewc ( $12565.00 USD )
Seat 6: vecinodel0 ( $3471.00 USD )
Seat 8: mitflamen ( $2720.00 USD )
Netter17 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
volcanoz76 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
mondonewc posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
vecinodel0 posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
mitflamen posts ante of [$50.00 USD].
volcanoz76 posts small blind [$400.00 USD].
mondonewc posts big blind [$800.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mondonewc [  5s 9s ]
vecinodel0 raises [$3421.00 USD]
mitflamen folds
Netter17 folds
volcanoz76 folds
mondonewc calls [$2621.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, 4h, 2d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
mondonewc shows [5s, 9s ]
vecinodel0 shows [Jd, 7h ]
mondonewc wins $7492.00 USD from main pot

Thanks

The first 3 really aren't just because i've lost i've been in a similar spot a few times now and just looking for advice/reassurance :)

#1 and #3 are super standard
I call #4 too (for the meta!)

2 is a tough one and depends on who raiser is. You've got to give a good reg and/or a nitty reg credit for 4xing over one limper in EP and figure that JJ shove won't get you too much value. Against random it's fine.

I wouldn't consider folding from BB. Peeling is possible, with your stack you have to go bust is flop doesn't bring an over.

For best results in future, delete the results part of the hands you post (in these four, from dealing flop on is not needed) as it may taint the advice you get.

You can't be accused of being results orientated if you're not actually posting the results.

^^^^ True,i posted results as i was only expecting replies off people who i wouldn't expect results orientated advice on and didn't want to waste time on full depth analysis.

Hand 1 I thought was standard only reason i put it up is i need to gain a better understanding of icm in relation to stack sizes etc and just wondered

Hand 2 I had no info on oppo as never played with before

Thanks for responses

I think they are all good, I would say 4 is the closest but you are probably just about the getting the correct odds.

on the topic of 45 players, what % should you be winning, and what % should you be getting paid? I am only winning 3.2%, and paid in 19% of them over 1,123 games..

this has probably been mentioned somewhere else but i couldn't find it, thanks!

Those figures 3.2 and 19 seems about right to me. I will check my database for you later.

thanks, i thought about 5 and 20% would be a decent return

From my last 5000 games.

ITM = 19.7%
1st's = 3.7%

Win 3.4%
ITM 17.5% (1st-6th)
3,100 games

win 2.9%
place 19%
5276 games +$8k nasty couple of break even stretches in there too

(http://C:\Users\benjamin\Pictures)

Longy and Tank are better ldo

hey have been playing quite a lot of the 90 man ko sngs at the $3 and $6 recently building up my account, having trouble in these with around 25-9 left where the final table bubble kicks in and i am hovering around a 8-12 bb stack which is usually around the average with say 3 6 handed tables.

I know it is a vague question but how light are you guys shoving here on average from say button and bvb etc, also hands like 44-88 utg kqs/kjs? I would normally ship these and am getting a bit pissed that im losing a few buyins in these recent.

Shipping very wide bvb virtually 100%, shipping like top 60-70% from the button as well. Would shove 44-88 utg, kqs and kjs I would shove with about 8bbs not much more.

thanks, another question when using like an icm calculater ( i use the one on holdemresources.net) what would be the correct way to enter the structure for one of these 90 man sngs? I think you can only enter 5 payouts :(

If you can only enter 5 payouts, the answer is you can't.

Although you could use it to analyze situations 2-6 handed