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Title: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 02:15:56 PM Ok
Blinds 1500/3000 300 Hero 61k villain 1 70k (in cut off) villain 2 180k (button) Hero in MP with AQo raises to 9k, cut off Both villains 1 and 2 flat call. Flop A J 8 Hero bets 9k, villain 1 folds, villain 2 calls turn 7 check check river 10 Pot circa 50k, hero has 44k hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" hero??????????????? (i know the flop bet is terrible - wanting to focus on the river) Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: action man on February 09, 2010, 02:19:33 PM shove the turn, u got 44k pot is 27k + 18K + blinds.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: pleno1 on February 09, 2010, 02:23:30 PM 9k to 44k is pretty big. There is like 35 in the middle on flop
Bet 17k on flop Lets you shove turn for 35 Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: StuartHopkin on February 09, 2010, 02:27:25 PM Less Pre
More on Flop Get it in on the turn? I think its a fold now? About everything he could have has got there. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: TheChipPrince on February 09, 2010, 02:36:26 PM Butchery! Would find a call like 0% of the time on river I think.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: MC on February 09, 2010, 02:44:24 PM Villain = Hero imo
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Dubai on February 09, 2010, 02:45:05 PM when people say i will put u all in, i usually call without looking at the board
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 03:00:36 PM Villain = Hero imo LOL - just too good! nice spot! I just couldnt see what hand he can call with unless he has AA (which I didnt think he had!) From my entire calling range pre he beats any <A6 (which im not calling with personally), and QJ. I just figured that the river filled every possible hand I needed to represent! He obv called! Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Dubai on February 09, 2010, 03:03:57 PM "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in"
Think they call this a live tell. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 03:16:17 PM "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" Think they call this a live tell. I didnt think it was too bad! Never suffered too many calls against weak opponents in the past. Its not like it was a huge over bet - he had less than a pot size bet left. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: gribbo on February 09, 2010, 03:49:55 PM agree with hopkin, am definetly double barreling the turn no point checking the turn when u have 20bbs at start of hand and stacks are this shallow.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: GreekStein on February 09, 2010, 03:56:03 PM why 3x'ing pre?
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: StuartHopkin on February 09, 2010, 04:12:53 PM "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" Think they call this a live tell. I didnt think it was too bad! Never suffered too many calls against weak opponents in the past. Its not like it was a huge over bet - he had less than a pot size bet left. I think your missing the point Guy! Were your words actually "i will put you all in"? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: EvilPie on February 09, 2010, 04:18:57 PM I might call this depending on villain although I'd never have got this far in the hand without the lot being in the middle.
Is villain using his stack as a bullying tool? Has he used the phrase "I'm all in" or "I'll put you all in" on several occasions since we've been this close to the money? He might just get handed a spite call in his eye. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Cf on February 09, 2010, 04:24:42 PM "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" Think they call this a live tell. I didnt think it was too bad! Never suffered too many calls against weak opponents in the past. Its not like it was a huge over bet - he had less than a pot size bet left. I think your missing the point Guy! Were your words actually "i will put you all in"? People who say "i will put you all in" tilt me so much. wtf, no you won't, i'll choose whether i'm all in or not. If someone says that to me I just sit there for a while before saying "oh sorry, are you actually going to bet something then?". Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 04:32:58 PM "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" Think they call this a live tell. I didnt think it was too bad! Never suffered too many calls against weak opponents in the past. Its not like it was a huge over bet - he had less than a pot size bet left. I think your missing the point Guy! Were your words actually "i will put you all in"? People who say "i will put you all in" tilt me so much. wtf, no you won't, i'll choose whether i'm all in or not. If someone says that to me I just sit there for a while before saying "oh sorry, are you actually going to bet something then?". the bet is your entire stack? - it saves asking for a count - werent you bothered about time wasters the other day? - i had counted this stack as best i could from the other end of the table as 48k - he obvstacks in 19's! and yes - i did use those exact words - and no I hadnt said it previoulsy Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Dubai on February 09, 2010, 04:36:17 PM when people say i will put u all in, i usually call without looking at the board Its just always a massive weak tell for majority of people that say it. Hence why I said this before any results were known Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Cf on February 09, 2010, 04:42:17 PM "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" Think they call this a live tell. I didnt think it was too bad! Never suffered too many calls against weak opponents in the past. Its not like it was a huge over bet - he had less than a pot size bet left. I think your missing the point Guy! Were your words actually "i will put you all in"? People who say "i will put you all in" tilt me so much. wtf, no you won't, i'll choose whether i'm all in or not. If someone says that to me I just sit there for a while before saying "oh sorry, are you actually going to bet something then?". the bet is your entire stack? - it saves asking for a count - werent you bothered about time wasters the other day? - i had counted this stack as best i could from the other end of the table as 48k - he obvstacks in 19's! and yes - i did use those exact words - and no I hadnt said it previoulsy Why do you need a count of my stack. Just announce all in yourself, it achieves the same thing. Anyway, I'm gonna stop thread hijacking :) Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: StuartHopkin on February 09, 2010, 04:47:12 PM I dont mean any offence to you Guy but when someone uses that sentance it implies they play in the pub, therefore allowing you to value call so light your might actually float of your seat a little with bottom pair.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: kinboshi on February 09, 2010, 05:04:44 PM *Note to self - use phrase "I put you all-in" to induce the call on the river when holding the nuts.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 05:24:16 PM *Note to self - use phrase "I put you all-in" to induce the call on the river when holding the nuts. this i have never seen it as weak before - ZOMG - what have i been doing! believe me I have the goods as often as i dont when i use that phrase. Not a live tell here im afraid (obv could be construde as such in this instance i guess) Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: BulldozerD on February 09, 2010, 05:26:00 PM i thought it was only my dad that said "i will put you all in" when he was bluffing
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: AlexMartin on February 09, 2010, 06:00:26 PM how this turn goes c/c ill never know.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: George2Loose on February 09, 2010, 06:26:15 PM what did you have Guy?
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 06:28:40 PM how this turn goes c/c ill never know. From my point of view - I had hit the flop and had position, so figured if he had the A he wasnt passing the turn. However I figured that there were a million river cards that looked scary (i loved the T), or I could catch up. The guy was in agony before calling off, so it clearly wasnt in his plan. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 06:29:44 PM what did you have Guy? lol i think it is irrelevant for the purposes of the discussion! ;D 8d6d Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: pleno1 on February 09, 2010, 06:42:43 PM what did you have Guy? lol i think it is irrelevant for the purposes of the discussion! ;D 8d6d just checccccck Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: titaniumbean on February 09, 2010, 06:47:09 PM what did you have Guy? lol i think it is irrelevant for the purposes of the discussion! ;D 8d6d just fold pre I dont get it. And that whole, I put you all in is just tilting. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: pleno1 on February 09, 2010, 06:52:46 PM tbf, do you actually remember saying the exact words? you shouldnt say it no, its bad etc, but how can you actually remember what you said.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 07:07:14 PM Because I have a very good memory of significant hands that I played 2 days ago.
I also use that phrase irrespective of my holding Also not folding pre for 5% of my stack when I have position and 2 villains to go at and I'm sure the blonds won't shove light Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: titaniumbean on February 09, 2010, 07:18:54 PM Because I have a very good memory of significant hands that I played 2 days ago. I also use that phrase irrespective of my holding Also not folding pre for 5% of my stack when I have position and 2 villains to go at and I'm sure the blonds won't shove light 5% of YOUR stack? how many blinds do they other players have though? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 07:21:57 PM See OP I was well aware of effective stacks
Sb had 110k and is a rock Bb 90k not shoving without a hand Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: titaniumbean on February 09, 2010, 07:29:34 PM See OP I was well aware of effective stacks Sb had 110k and is a rock Bb 90k not shoving without a hand I still dont get. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: George2Loose on February 09, 2010, 07:31:26 PM I don't mind the call pre in position although I think it is a little spewy at this stage. I may squeeze instead tho.
Post flop I just fold the flop. This is not the board you were looking for when you called nor is it one you'll be able to continue on/float too often Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 08:06:36 PM George.
I was going to fold expecting him to be 20k. But he bet 9k into a 30k pot, and I hit it. I couldn't justify a fold having hit the flop getting 4:1. I figured he checks AA here so has happy to peel. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: titaniumbean on February 09, 2010, 08:11:21 PM George. I was going to fold expecting him to be 20k. But he bet 9k into a 30k pot, and I hit it. I couldn't justify a fold having hit the flop getting 4:1. I figured he checks AA here so has happy to peel. Guy, how does these thoughts of how he'll play the flop fit in with our flatting a suited connector with 30 bets effective? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 09, 2010, 08:15:39 PM I'm not sure why you are trying to lead me somewhere.
Preflop my decission is made to get it all on on any 2 diamond, 2 pr, top pair or combo board. I was going to be v happy folding an A high board if he bet properly. I would remind you that I had implied odds against 2 villains too. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: titaniumbean on February 09, 2010, 08:59:13 PM I'm not sure why you are trying to lead me somewhere. Preflop my decission is made to get it all on on any 2 diamond, 2 pr, top pair or combo board. I was going to be v happy folding an A high board if he bet properly. I would remind you that I had implied odds against 2 villains too. I'm asking questions because you seem so sure you're play is fine. I'm thinking that with 30 bets effective we are not going to be hitting the flop enough to make this worthwhile. It's not like your post is full of reads or info on the players and their tendancies other than the stack sizes. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: LuckyLloyd on February 09, 2010, 10:41:50 PM when people say i will put u all in, i usually call without looking at the board "hero checks, villain insta announces "i will put you all in" Think they call this a live tell. always a massive weak tell for majority of people that say it. Hence why I said this before any results were known Sick posting heater. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Royal Flush on February 10, 2010, 06:04:34 AM I would remind you that I had implied odds against 2 villains too. Yeah you had implied odds, in the same way that calling to hit a gutshot getting evens you are "getting odds" just nowhere near the correct odds. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Cf on February 10, 2010, 12:12:57 PM I'm not sure why you are trying to lead me somewhere. Preflop my decission is made to get it all on on any 2 diamond, 2 pr, top pair or combo board. I was going to be v happy folding an A high board if he bet properly. I would remind you that I had implied odds against 2 villains too. wait, what? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 10, 2010, 02:14:19 PM should have said top pair and combo boards
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Royal Flush on February 10, 2010, 05:38:46 PM should have said top pair and combo boards How often do you think you will flop these hands? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: titaniumbean on February 10, 2010, 05:54:12 PM should have said top pair and combo boards How often do you think you will flop these hands? I've asked this question. We had implied odds, and like hundreds of thousands of chips....... Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 10, 2010, 06:03:33 PM or maybe more importantly how often will he miss his?
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: NigDawG on February 10, 2010, 09:20:26 PM what's all this talk about implied odds? the original raiser has 23bb and opened for a full 3x...68s is a very easy fold pre?
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Royal Flush on February 11, 2010, 03:39:36 AM or maybe more importantly how often will he miss his? Ah so we just going to soul read him to find out if he has AQ/AK or a PP? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: railtard1 on February 11, 2010, 03:43:33 AM what's all this talk about implied odds? the original raiser has 23bb and opened for a full 3x...68s is a very easy fold pre? THIIIIIIIIIIIIIS Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 11, 2010, 09:44:58 AM or maybe more importantly how often will he miss his? Ah so we just going to soul read him to find out if he has AQ/AK or a PP? you are assuming that everyone plays aggresively, has bags of cash, a couldnt care less attitude to cashing and huge balls he will let me know if he has it (most of the time - sigh) Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: George2Loose on February 11, 2010, 10:07:33 AM or maybe more importantly how often will he miss his? Ah so we just going to soul read him to find out if he has AQ/AK or a PP? you are assuming that everyone plays aggresively, has bags of cash, a couldnt care less attitude to cashing and huge balls he will let me know if he has it (most of the time - sigh) Guy if you're so sure you've played it right why is this on PHA? To prove villian played it badly? Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: outragous76 on February 11, 2010, 10:15:11 AM or maybe more importantly how often will he miss his? Ah so we just going to soul read him to find out if he has AQ/AK or a PP? you are assuming that everyone plays aggresively, has bags of cash, a couldnt care less attitude to cashing and huge balls he will let me know if he has it (most of the time - sigh) Guy if you're so sure you've played it right why is this on PHA? To prove villian played it badly? I am not so sure i have played it right, that is why i posted There are many things i have taken from the comments on this thread that will improve the way i play this spot next time There is nothing wrong with challenging thinking. FLushys comment re soul reading was unnecessary. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Cf on February 11, 2010, 10:53:43 AM But it's accurate. You say we can call and take the pot away if he misses? But how do we know if he's missed? There's 30k or so in pot and villain has ~50k left. If he bets then how do we find out what he has? Villain only has 1 more bullet left, and you've no idea if it's going in or not. Even if he checks he could easily be doing a c/r to try and get his stack in.
In short I don't think the stacks are deep enough to be trying to outplay a shortish stack postflop. PS if I've mixed stack sizes or positions up it's cos you did the whole hero=villain thing. Next time just post hand from your pov rather than a "how can he call???" thread :) Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: BulldozerD on February 11, 2010, 11:19:42 AM calling pre here is optimistic to say the least
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: EvilPie on February 11, 2010, 12:08:38 PM or maybe more importantly how often will he miss his? If he misses his hand you can chuck your implied odds straight out the window. Therefore you're looking to hit a pair + combo off the 2 remaining flop cards which isn't going to happen often. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Royal Flush on February 11, 2010, 05:07:24 PM you are assuming that everyone plays aggresively, has bags of cash, a couldnt care less attitude to cashing and huge balls he will let me know if he has it (most of the time - sigh) No i am just assuming he has less than 30bb, which turns out to be correct. Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: SuperJez on February 11, 2010, 08:35:10 PM Good thread, just wanted to say excellent spot by Dubai
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: redarmi on February 16, 2010, 03:24:55 AM when people say i will put u all in, i usually call without looking at the board Its just always a massive weak tell for majority of people that say it. Hence why I said this before any results were known So am in tourney at walsall in BB with 68o.......limped to me and I check. Flop comes 842 rainbow....I bet 1500 and the guy in early position says "I will put u all in" for 10k more.....just as I am about to push this thread comes to mind....so I decide to call......sadly he has a set of tens....maybe he had read the thread too and was using nth level thinking...Nevermind I was tired anyway!!!! Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: BulldozerD on February 16, 2010, 02:40:55 PM its a void hand if he has a set of 10s on a 8 high board
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Cf on February 16, 2010, 03:33:37 PM its a void hand if he has a set of 10s on a 8 high board gah! I noticed this last night but was on my phone so couldn't quote it. Was meant to bring it up today but forgot about it :( Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: redarmi on February 17, 2010, 02:27:16 AM sorry set of twos.
Title: Re: DTD 300 - 5 to the bubble Post by: Dubai on February 17, 2010, 02:46:40 PM When people do it on the river its massively different to the flop, particularly how this hand was played.
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