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Title: TT early position against another big stack Post by: kinboshi on April 06, 2010, 01:11:45 PM Live tournament - £150 buy-in - 70 runners
150/300 level - nine-handed tables I've been fairly tight so far, but managed to accummulate 25K, and the average is 14K (about 50 still in). Folded to the hero who is UTG+2 with Th Td Make a standard-sized raise to 900. Sound OK so far? Nitty sort of player in mid-position hasn't played a hand for a while, decides to raise to 3,000. He has a similar stack to me. It's folded back round to me... ??? Will post more in a bit. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: Claw75 on April 06, 2010, 01:13:49 PM call to hit flush with your sooted tens
edit: sigh - too late! Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: kinboshi on April 06, 2010, 01:14:34 PM call to hit flush with your sooted tens edit: sigh - too late! Unsooted them :D Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: GreekStein on April 06, 2010, 01:22:32 PM I take it there are no antes Dan?
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: gatso on April 06, 2010, 01:31:05 PM I take it there are no antes Dan? he's still in so I doubt it Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: MC on April 06, 2010, 01:44:35 PM Raise less pre...
What kinda stack does villain have? Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: doubleup on April 06, 2010, 01:45:19 PM I've been fairly tight...... ......Nitty sort of player in mid-position hasn't played a hand for a while, decides to raise to 3,000. If there is any truth in these statements you really should fold unless your opponent is known for muttering "thank you god, thank you very fking much" when he holds AK and the flop is 8 high. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: kinboshi on April 06, 2010, 01:59:08 PM I take it there are no antes Dan? he's still in so I doubt it :D No antes. It's also not me playing the hand...just one I've observed. So don't let me influence your advice ;) Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: kinboshi on April 06, 2010, 02:00:06 PM Raise less pre... What kinda stack does villain have? Very similar to the hero. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: StuartHopkin on April 06, 2010, 02:08:43 PM I do a flat call.
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: Longy on April 06, 2010, 02:13:30 PM I fold, a nitty live player 3 bets an Ep raise from mp, are we ever ahead? We aren't deep enough to set mine properly imo, therefore fold.
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: GreekStein on April 06, 2010, 02:16:12 PM Raise less pre... What kinda stack does villain have? raise size pre is fine imo. read op! Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: kinboshi on April 06, 2010, 02:26:55 PM Regarding the pre-flop raise.
Would it be right to vary your play here from raising pre (to whatever amount) and flat calling? Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: kinboshi on April 06, 2010, 02:32:12 PM So with the pre-flop raise and the subsequent 3-bet to 3K - we're always folding here (to a tight player)?
What about a player we have no reads on, and a player we know is LAG? Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: StuartHopkin on April 06, 2010, 02:36:20 PM Regarding the pre-flop raise. Would it be right to vary your play here from raising pre (to whatever amount) and flat calling? Why would you even ask this! Limp pre? Why would we ever do this? Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: MC on April 06, 2010, 02:39:32 PM Raise less pre... What kinda stack does villain have? raise size pre is fine imo. read op! I read the OP ;grr; 775 pre ftw. With similar stacks I fold against a nit. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: NigDawG on April 06, 2010, 03:37:45 PM An EP limping (sometimes to raise, sometimes to call) range isn't the worst idea in the world 9 or 10 handed. To answer your question, yes we are always folding TT to the 3bet, more so against a LAG (unless they are absolutely mental, in which case we shove) because their hand range is less defined and our reverse implied odds are worse than against someone who we can put on JJ+ AK. If we're deep enough to set mine (only need 15:1 or so vs a nit, more than 20:1 vs a lag) then go for it. The reason I am ok with raise-folding is that TT is near the bottom of our range when we raise UTG+2 (pre-antes), often we will have an even better hand and won't be folding, so our fold with TT doesn't necessarily make it profitable to 3bet us with all sorts. Besides, if the guy is tight and he has 4 or 5 other players still to act behind him, he is very unlikely to be exploiting us anyway. its live poker doubt any exploitation will be going on unless the dealer is female and barry neville is on your table/in the room Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: BulldozerD on April 06, 2010, 05:34:39 PM I'd be mucking here most likely
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: GreekStein on April 06, 2010, 05:46:12 PM It's pretty f simple really.
He's a nit. We've raised early with 1010. Less than 10% of the time is a nit reraising with worse. We aren't deep enough to call and setmine or try and play like a genius post-flop OOP. Foldy moldy. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: NigDawG on April 06, 2010, 06:08:47 PM oh yeh this hand is ez fold pre
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: titaniumbean on April 06, 2010, 06:15:26 PM I take it there are no antes Dan? he's still in so I doubt it End of thread. Epiiiiic. (I raise fold fwiw) Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: Cottonbud on April 06, 2010, 07:21:15 PM It's pretty f simple really. He's a nit. We've raised early with 1010. Less than 10% of the time is a nit reraising with worse. We aren't deep enough to call and setmine or try and play like a genius post-flop OOP. Foldy moldy. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: Simon Galloway on April 06, 2010, 08:22:45 PM . If we're deep enough to set mine (only need 15:1 or so vs a nit, more than 20:1 vs a lag) <snip> I agree with 15:1 for the nit. You have to hit the set AND have him have enough hand to want to put some more chips in ~ so 15:1 is fair. Why do you need larger odds for the LAG? Surely they are more likely to get their chips in far more readily by overplaying/being creative/something else that some of the time you hit your set and wonder how to get his chips in, hey presto, he does it for you? What have I overlooked? Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: Longy on April 06, 2010, 08:26:29 PM . If we're deep enough to set mine (only need 15:1 or so vs a nit, more than 20:1 vs a lag) <snip> I agree with 15:1 for the nit. You have to hit the set AND have him have enough hand to want to put some more chips in ~ so 15:1 is fair. Why do you need larger odds for the LAG? Surely they are more likely to get their chips in far more readily by overplaying/being creative/something else that some of the time you hit your set and wonder how to get his chips in, hey presto, he does it for you? What have I overlooked? Their range is much wider therefore they won't stack as often because jj+ is a smaller part of their range. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: Simon Galloway on April 06, 2010, 09:06:40 PM OK, but previously I'd offset them having JJ+ less of the time about the same as them spewing more often than the nit, leaving 15:1 still a fair price. Is that not the case?
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: hatthehole on April 06, 2010, 11:28:05 PM OK, but previously I'd offset them having JJ+ less of the time about the same as them spewing more often than the nit, leaving 15:1 still a fair price. Is that not the case? there's a difference between a LAG and a spewbox Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: AlexMartin on April 06, 2010, 11:39:33 PM oh yeh this hand is ez fold pre +1Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: pleno1 on April 07, 2010, 12:00:54 AM call quickly. min raise any flop. bet 1/2 pot turn and insta ship river while taking a sip of your drink tell him it;s soooooooo sick and you'll show him after hand. he wont call and we add 15k to stack.
or fold. Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: railtard1 on April 07, 2010, 12:27:24 AM standard fold pre... unless some crazy dynamic going on involving the 2 players involved
Title: Re: TT early position against another big stack Post by: NoflopsHomer on April 10, 2010, 02:21:00 AM An EP limping (sometimes to raise, sometimes to call) range isn't the worst idea in the world 9 or 10 handed. To answer your question, yes we are always folding TT to the 3bet, more so against a LAG (unless they are absolutely mental, in which case we shove) because their hand range is less defined and our reverse implied odds are worse than against someone who we can put on JJ+ AK. If we're deep enough to set mine (only need 15:1 or so vs a nit, more than 20:1 vs a lag) then go for it. The reason I am ok with raise-folding is that TT is near the bottom of our range when we raise UTG+2 (pre-antes), often we will have an even better hand and won't be folding, so our fold with TT doesn't necessarily make it profitable to 3bet us with all sorts. Besides, if the guy is tight and he has 4 or 5 other players still to act behind him, he is very unlikely to be exploiting us anyway. its live poker doubt any exploitation will be going on unless the dealer is female and barry neville is on your table/in the room This deserves way more love. |