Title: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: action man on April 12, 2010, 08:18:46 PM Full Tilt Poker Game #20025393933: $22,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (153321598), Table 8 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:50:18 ET - 2010/04/12
Seat 1: Jimmywilkins (4,328) Seat 2: arsen_0001 (3,224) Seat 3: Chesternuts (4,355) Seat 4: musik222 (5,343) Seat 5: FresnoDull (4,970) Seat 6: TheClaimer (6,080) Seat 7: AshTheDonkey (5,255) Seat 8: runner_0318 (4,145) Seat 9: yodhewawhe (10,629) musik222 posts the small blind of 40 FresnoDull posts the big blind of 80 The button is in seat #3 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to TheClaimer [Jc Js] TheClaimer raises to 200 AshTheDonkey folds runner_0318 folds yodhewawhe calls 200 Jimmywilkins folds arsen_0001 folds Chesternuts folds musik222 calls 160 FresnoDull folds *** FLOP *** [Ts Kh Kd] musik222 checks TheClaimer bets 440 yodhewawhe folds musik222 calls 440 *** TURN *** [Ts Kh Kd] [Ks] musik222 checks TheClaimer bets 800 musik222 has 15 seconds left to act musik222 calls 800 *** RIVER *** [Ts Kh Kd Ks] [6c] musik222 has 15 seconds left to act musik222 bets 3,903, and is all in thoughts plz. only reads is that villain peels wide from BB. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: outragous76 on April 12, 2010, 08:31:53 PM He over called from the blinds
He shouldn't have AA or QQ so I call. If he has the case K its cold. He probs has a T Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: doubleup on April 12, 2010, 08:48:06 PM He over called from the blinds He shouldn't have AA or QQ so I call. If he has the case K its cold. He probs has a T « Last Edit: Today at 07:43:06 PM by outragous76 » u timed out Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: paulhouk03 on April 12, 2010, 08:49:29 PM call
could have tx or some random pp Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: RED-DOG on April 12, 2010, 08:55:34 PM Well, I think... if it were me.... in that situation..... I would probably.....
RED-DOG has timed out - hand is folded. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: EvilPie on April 12, 2010, 09:04:37 PM Use the full 22 seconds to maximise the slowroll then hit call.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: Rupert on April 12, 2010, 09:28:32 PM call
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: hatthehole on April 12, 2010, 09:30:00 PM doubt I ever fold in real time, never seen someone take this line without the nuts tho
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: outragous76 on April 12, 2010, 09:33:29 PM Middy that's because you play big, there are plenty of re....... Spast...... Idi......
Erm Crazy people at low stakes who jam here thinking that they are both good and going to get paid. Except they aren't really thinking Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: Royal Flush on April 12, 2010, 09:55:47 PM I would spend 20 seconds wondering why i didnt just 3x pre, the last 2 seconds would be used to sigh call.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: action man on April 12, 2010, 10:11:03 PM yeah my slider is a bit tempremental and i 3x at this level 100% must have been misclick
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: action man on April 12, 2010, 10:15:12 PM Middy that's because you play big, there are plenty of re....... Spast...... Idi...... Erm Crazy people at low stakes who jam here thinking that they are both good and going to get paid. Except they aren't really thinking $50 cubed not exactly low stakes. So people think heakes this line with a ten? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: outragous76 on April 12, 2010, 10:26:02 PM Middy that's because you play big, there are plenty of re....... Spast...... Idi...... Erm Crazy people at low stakes who jam here thinking that they are both good and going to get paid. Except they aren't really thinking $50 cubed not exactly low stakes. So people think heakes this line with a ten? didnt realise it was a 50 cubed with only a 22k prize pool still calling Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: EvilPie on April 12, 2010, 10:40:42 PM Middy that's because you play big, there are plenty of re....... Spast...... Idi...... Erm Crazy people at low stakes who jam here thinking that they are both good and going to get paid. Except they aren't really thinking $50 cubed not exactly low stakes. So people think heakes this line with a ten? During the rebuy period I would say yes. After it I would say probably. This is based on my only playing the 50 cubed about half a dozen times so no expert. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: MANTIS01 on April 12, 2010, 11:20:10 PM Don't think he plays a 10 this way, what worse hand does he think calls this bet? He will run into bigger houses or get his oppo to fold lots more than he gets value from worse. That said a spazz is just as likely as four kings so you call. I don't think you can read your oppo for quads and be happy folding.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: GreekStein on April 12, 2010, 11:42:35 PM call for me.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: paulhouk03 on April 12, 2010, 11:43:31 PM the level that i play (low) I see lots of ppl put their stacks in in that situation
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: EvilPie on April 13, 2010, 12:27:23 AM the level that i play (low) I see lots of ppl put their stacks in in that situation But what have they got? That's the important bit. And can our hand beat it? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: doubleup on April 13, 2010, 12:39:03 AM My problem is I can't see what air he has - AQ maybe? He cld have flatted with this as hero raised in ep but it seems stubborn to still be there on the turn. He certainly seemed to have called the turn with a river push in mind. If I can't find a draw I tend to fold to this kind of line, so I prob wld here.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: AlexMartin on April 13, 2010, 12:44:40 AM fold here, really cant see him ever having air here or value jamming worse.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: George2Loose on April 13, 2010, 01:39:12 AM I'd fold. He has 4 of a kind
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: pleno1 on April 13, 2010, 03:14:56 AM sigh timebank fold
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: NigDawG on April 13, 2010, 06:26:19 AM i think this is almost always Kx
unless he has been spazzing about you can fold relatively quickly Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: action man on April 13, 2010, 11:47:18 AM hmm first posts all calls, last 5 all folds?? leaked info IMO
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: NoflopsHomer on April 13, 2010, 12:44:40 PM Surely with a K he should be check/shoving this river? (Also, do you call a crai on the river Trigg?)
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: railtard1 on April 13, 2010, 12:45:58 PM such a gayyyyyy spot. Its like, no one wants to fold but we only ever see Kx. sighhh before whatever we do
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: action man on April 13, 2010, 04:57:53 PM Surely with a K he should be check/shoving this river? (Also, do you call a crai on the river Trigg?) if he checks the riv im pretty sure his line is like a ten or smaller pair so i bet pretty big as most people wont fold a ten here so for the dust i left back (if any) i couldnt fold. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: pleno1 on April 13, 2010, 05:18:08 PM hmm first posts all calls, last 5 all folds?? leaked info IMO it's Alex MFKIN Martin, George MFKIN Loose, Nig MFKIN Dawg and me. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: George2Loose on April 13, 2010, 06:04:25 PM He almost never checks/shove a K here because most people aren't Rick Trigg and value bet thin here.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: GreekStein on April 13, 2010, 06:05:56 PM He almost never checks/shove a K here because most people aren't Rick Trigg and value bet thin here. What's thin on a board of KKK? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: MANTIS01 on April 13, 2010, 06:10:17 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: George2Loose on April 13, 2010, 06:11:23 PM He almost never checks/shove a K here because most people aren't Rick Trigg and value bet thin here. What's thin on a board of KKK? Think you'll be surprised how many people would check Jacks behind here. His line screams Kings. Does he really play a 10 this way? or anything worse than JJ? It's a pretty elaborate bluff if he's pulling one off. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: George2Loose on April 13, 2010, 06:12:57 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. Errrr I would jam with 4 kings all day. I must be bad. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: GreekStein on April 13, 2010, 06:21:51 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. Ever rangemerge? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: George2Loose on April 13, 2010, 06:24:49 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. Ever rangemerge? He plays live. He doesn't need to. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: MANTIS01 on April 13, 2010, 06:41:11 PM We have no history vs villain and we have no reads so why would villain choose to rangemerge here?
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: byronkincaid on April 13, 2010, 07:07:33 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. zeebo's theorem came out in 2006, pretty cool that there are still people who haven't heard of it, or maybe i'm a sad no life poker geek, hmmm Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: pleno1 on April 13, 2010, 07:30:39 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. zeebo's theorem came out in 2006, pretty cool that there are still people who haven't heard of it, or maybe i'm a sad no life poker geek, hmmm perfectly shown in this hand. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: NigDawG on April 13, 2010, 07:37:59 PM Would I play Kx like this? Norrrrr
have I seen randoms play Kx like this hundreds of times? Yessss Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: AlexMartin on April 13, 2010, 07:41:26 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. a checkraise is dependant on hero's CALLING range though. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: AlexMartin on April 13, 2010, 07:42:50 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. Ever rangemerge? huh? like who the fuck ever jams 99 for value here or has bluffs? meh maybe iv lost the plot Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: GreekStein on April 13, 2010, 07:54:36 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. Ever rangemerge? huh? like who the fuck ever jams 99 for value here or has bluffs? meh maybe iv lost the plot Nah I just meant you wouldn't always play the nuts (a king) in exactly the same way if you were a good player Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: pleno1 on April 13, 2010, 07:58:21 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. Ever rangemerge? huh? like who the fuck ever jams 99 for value here or has bluffs? meh maybe iv lost the plot i know what rangemerging is obv. but are you saying that nobody ever bluffs here? or just saying people dont jam 99 and bluff here? If its the first then surely its a snap fold? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: MANTIS01 on April 13, 2010, 08:47:21 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. zeebo's theorem came out in 2006, pretty cool that there are still people who haven't heard of it, or maybe i'm a sad no life poker geek, hmmm I don't get it. How does villain know hero has a house again? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: pleno1 on April 13, 2010, 09:01:58 PM Jamming the river with the four kings isn't optimal imo as you miss value from bluffs and vbets from big pairs...thus villain isn't playing poker very well...and you can't say somebody who doesn't play poker very well definitely has quads when implementing this particular line...he might have another hand he's not playing very well instead. zeebo's theorem came out in 2006, pretty cool that there are still people who haven't heard of it, or maybe i'm a sad no life poker geek, hmmm I don't get it. How does villain know hero has a house again? he doesnt, but he knows that villain is unlikely to fold a house. so everytime he shoves and villain has a 10 or better he will call, like proven in said hand. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: byronkincaid on April 13, 2010, 09:05:28 PM you're saying that villain should check if he has quads cos hero might bluff or bet his big pairs. I think he almost never bluffs and will check back small pairs that he may possibly call with if you put in the big bluffy looking all in.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: byronkincaid on April 13, 2010, 09:12:30 PM Zeebo's Theorem - Nobody ever folded a full house.
Reasoning: Nobody is good enough to fold a monster. Most players aren't even good enough to fold a hand that looks like a monster but really isn't. Application: There are two basic applications to this theory. The first is that if you put your opponent on a full house and you can beat them, don't be afraid to overbet/push the river. This is particularly true when there is three of a kind on the board. Players will call with an incredible range of full houses in that spot. It is true that some villain may fold 22 on a board with three aces. However, you have no way of knowing if they have 22 or TT so go ahead and felt them. You are losing value if you don't. And sometimes they'll call with 22 anyway. The second thing to realize is to never try to bluff anyone off a full house. If you have 22 on a board with three Aces, don't expect to be able to push 66 off his hand. This theorem also generally applies to any monster over monster situation, from straight flush over quads/FH/nut flush down to set over set. Reliability: This is the most reliable theorem. Nearly 100%. Somebody will post and argue that it is actually 100%. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: MANTIS01 on April 13, 2010, 09:36:22 PM you're saying that villain should check if he has quads cos hero might bluff or bet his big pairs. I think he almost never bluffs and will check back small pairs that he may possibly call with if you put in the big bluffy looking all in. So you think hero is the type of player who doesn't vbet his big pairs, always gives up with his unpaired hands, and makes big all-in calls with small pairs? Some player. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: byronkincaid on April 13, 2010, 09:45:38 PM you're saying that villain should check if he has quads cos hero might bluff or bet his big pairs. I think he almost never bluffs and will check back small pairs that he may possibly call with if you put in the big bluffy looking all in. So you think hero is the type of player who doesn't vbet his big pairs, always gives up with his unpaired hands, and makes big all-in calls with small pairs? Some player. i really don't think this is a board that many people bluff, i didn't say anything about not betting big pairs you agree he calls with these? more chance of getting value by betting there's the isildurrr overbetting river thing as well which tons has been written about recently and you might catch up on in 4 or 5 years ;) Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: Rupert on April 14, 2010, 01:41:37 AM FOLD CALL WHO CARES THIS SPOT COMES UP ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS. WHY DOESNT EVERYONE FIX THEIR PREFLOP LEAKS FIRST LOL
edit: RANGE MERGE ZEEBO THEOREM HI GUYZ Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: AlexMartin on April 14, 2010, 01:45:42 AM FOLD CALL WHO CARES THIS SPOT COMES UP ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS. WHY DOESNT EVERYONE FIX THEIR PREFLOP LEAKS FIRST LOL edit: RANGE MERGE ZEEBO THEOREM HI GUYZ more importantly, are u the biggest staker in the worlds? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: Rupert on April 14, 2010, 01:47:14 AM i have trouble saying no
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: Cf on April 14, 2010, 04:59:52 PM I think I probably go sigh wtf fold in this spot. I mean, this has to be a K. Surely? If he has the K he's seen us fire twice, but now think he needs to bet the river as we're gonna be checking behind so often here. Why would he make this bet with anything else except as a bluff? And if he hasn't got the K there's no reason why we might not have it (raise pre, fired 2 streets). And I don't see why he's put himself in this spot to bluff here.
Meh. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: buzzharvey22 on April 14, 2010, 06:41:57 PM i think this is a fold to be honest
the way hero has played hand has represented a huge amount of strength to me, open from early, c-bet into multi-way pot, fire 2nd barrell on paired board IMO this player would have to be crazy if he fancied bluffing his stack into the way hero has played hand, because essentialy everything he jams on river is a bluff unless its the K right? Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: MANTIS01 on April 15, 2010, 11:57:43 AM So lots of people are in favour of folding. Wp Zeebo you had a good run.
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: AlexMartin on April 16, 2010, 02:21:52 AM Zeebo's Theorem - Nobody ever folded a full house. Reasoning: Nobody is good enough to fold a monster. Most players aren't even good enough to fold a hand that looks like a monster but really isn't. Application: There are two basic applications to this theory. The first is that if you put your opponent on a full house and you can beat them, don't be afraid to overbet/push the river. This is particularly true when there is three of a kind on the board. Players will call with an incredible range of full houses in that spot. It is true that some villain may fold 22 on a board with three aces. However, you have no way of knowing if they have 22 or TT so go ahead and felt them. You are losing value if you don't. And sometimes they'll call with 22 anyway. The second thing to realize is to never try to bluff anyone off a full house. If you have 22 on a board with three Aces, don't expect to be able to push 66 off his hand. This theorem also generally applies to any monster over monster situation, from straight flush over quads/FH/nut flush down to set over set. Reliability: This is the most reliable theorem. Nearly 100%. Somebody will post and argue that it is actually 100%. i did lol at this part. pretty incredibly naiive to think that ppl will never adapt/get better wrt gt. Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: byronkincaid on April 17, 2010, 09:30:48 PM What I do and recommend you do, is to gamble on whether or not my opponent is bluffing. What I hold isn't all that important; it only has to be able to beat a bluff. As I gain experience, I'm constantly being surprised by how often players bluff. Missed Flush draws are somewhat predictable of course (if only two of a suit is on the board, nobody has a Flush) and missed Straight draws are fairly evident as well. More difficult to determine is the bluff where your opponent holds second pair, but is representing top pair and you hold top pair with a poor kicker. As an example, let's say you have Kh-5h and the flop is Kc,Js,7d. Your opponent bets into it and you raise. If he calls your raise, you have got to at least suspect he also has a King and, if he does, his kicker may be better than yours. But don't forget that he might be holding Q-J here and is hoping for either a J or Q to come on the turn, which is evidenced by the fact he didn't re-raise. Let's say the turn card is 10h. If he now bets into you, it could mean he has either made a Straight (from a hand of A-Q or Q-9), hit two-pair (from a hand like K-10 or J-10) or has a Straight draw (from a hand of J-Q). I would just call here, unless I had a lot of chips, in which case I'd raise in light of my Flush draw. Either move is a gamble, but I think it's a reasonable gamble. I still have top pair and, unless the river card makes my hand totally untenable, I'm going to call his river bet, assuming he makes one. Of course, if the river makes my Flush, he's getting it with both barrels, should he bet. Yes, he might have A-x of hearts, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. After all, I'm gambling, right?
Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: booder on April 17, 2010, 09:40:36 PM What I do and recommend you do, is to gamble on whether or not my opponent is bluffing. What I hold isn't all that important; it only has to be able to beat a bluff. As I gain experience, I'm constantly being surprised by how often players bluff. Missed Flush draws are somewhat predictable of course (if only two of a suit is on the board, nobody has a Flush) and missed Straight draws are fairly evident as well. More difficult to determine is the bluff where your opponent holds second pair, but is representing top pair and you hold top pair with a poor kicker. As an example, let's say you have Kh-5h and the flop is Kc,Js,7d. Your opponent bets into it and you raise. If he calls your raise, you have got to at least suspect he also has a King and, if he does, his kicker may be better than yours. But don't forget that he might be holding Q-J here and is hoping for either a J or Q to come on the turn, which is evidenced by the fact he didn't re-raise. Let's say the turn card is 10h. If he now bets into you, it could mean he has either made a Straight (from a hand of A-Q or Q-9), hit two-pair (from a hand like K-10 or J-10) or has a Straight draw (from a hand of J-Q). I would just call here, unless I had a lot of chips, in which case I'd raise in light of my Flush draw. Either move is a gamble, but I think it's a reasonable gamble. I still have top pair and, unless the river card makes my hand totally untenable, I'm going to call his river bet, assuming he makes one. Of course, if the river makes my Flush, he's getting it with both barrels, should he bet. Yes, he might have A-x of hearts, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. After all, I'm gambling, right? http://www.gamemasteronline.com/Archive/PokerSchool/PokerSchool-Lesson-18.shtml Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: The_nun on April 17, 2010, 09:48:36 PM What I do and recommend you do, is to gamble on whether or not my opponent is bluffing. What I hold isn't all that important; it only has to be able to beat a bluff. As I gain experience, I'm constantly being surprised by how often players bluff. Missed Flush draws are somewhat predictable of course (if only two of a suit is on the board, nobody has a Flush) and missed Straight draws are fairly evident as well. More difficult to determine is the bluff where your opponent holds second pair, but is representing top pair and you hold top pair with a poor kicker. As an example, let's say you have Kh-5h and the flop is Kc,Js,7d. Your opponent bets into it and you raise. If he calls your raise, you have got to at least suspect he also has a King and, if he does, his kicker may be better than yours. But don't forget that he might be holding Q-J here and is hoping for either a J or Q to come on the turn, which is evidenced by the fact he didn't re-raise. Let's say the turn card is 10h. If he now bets into you, it could mean he has either made a Straight (from a hand of A-Q or Q-9), hit two-pair (from a hand like K-10 or J-10) or has a Straight draw (from a hand of J-Q). I would just call here, unless I had a lot of chips, in which case I'd raise in light of my Flush draw. Either move is a gamble, but I think it's a reasonable gamble. I still have top pair and, unless the river card makes my hand totally untenable, I'm going to call his river bet, assuming he makes one. Of course, if the river makes my Flush, he's getting it with both barrels, should he bet. Yes, he might have A-x of hearts, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. After all, I'm gambling, right? [/q This is where i am going wrong, i just can not get all this info info into 22 seconds...FML Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: NigDawG on April 18, 2010, 05:49:36 PM What I do and recommend you do, is to gamble on whether or not my opponent is bluffing. What I hold isn't all that important; it only has to be able to beat a bluff. As I gain experience, I'm constantly being surprised by how often players bluff. Missed Flush draws are somewhat predictable of course (if only two of a suit is on the board, nobody has a Flush) and missed Straight draws are fairly evident as well. More difficult to determine is the bluff where your opponent holds second pair, but is representing top pair and you hold top pair with a poor kicker. As an example, let's say you have Kh-5h and the flop is Kc,Js,7d. Your opponent bets into it and you raise. If he calls your raise, you have got to at least suspect he also has a King and, if he does, his kicker may be better than yours. But don't forget that he might be holding Q-J here and is hoping for either a J or Q to come on the turn, which is evidenced by the fact he didn't re-raise. Let's say the turn card is 10h. If he now bets into you, it could mean he has either made a Straight (from a hand of A-Q or Q-9), hit two-pair (from a hand like K-10 or J-10) or has a Straight draw (from a hand of J-Q). I would just call here, unless I had a lot of chips, in which case I'd raise in light of my Flush draw. Either move is a gamble, but I think it's a reasonable gamble. I still have top pair and, unless the river card makes my hand totally untenable, I'm going to call his river bet, assuming he makes one. Of course, if the river makes my Flush, he's getting it with both barrels, should he bet. Yes, he might have A-x of hearts, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. After all, I'm gambling, right? tl:dr Title: Re: Imagine you have 22 seconds to act on riv Post by: byronkincaid on April 18, 2010, 07:48:20 PM What I do and recommend you do, is to gamble on whether or not my opponent is bluffing. What I hold isn't all that important; it only has to be able to beat a bluff. As I gain experience, I'm constantly being surprised by how often players bluff. Missed Flush draws are somewhat predictable of course (if only two of a suit is on the board, nobody has a Flush) and missed Straight draws are fairly evident as well. More difficult to determine is the bluff where your opponent holds second pair, but is representing top pair and you hold top pair with a poor kicker. As an example, let's say you have Kh-5h and the flop is Kc,Js,7d. Your opponent bets into it and you raise. If he calls your raise, you have got to at least suspect he also has a King and, if he does, his kicker may be better than yours. But don't forget that he might be holding Q-J here and is hoping for either a J or Q to come on the turn, which is evidenced by the fact he didn't re-raise. Let's say the turn card is 10h. If he now bets into you, it could mean he has either made a Straight (from a hand of A-Q or Q-9), hit two-pair (from a hand like K-10 or J-10) or has a Straight draw (from a hand of J-Q). I would just call here, unless I had a lot of chips, in which case I'd raise in light of my Flush draw. Either move is a gamble, but I think it's a reasonable gamble. I still have top pair and, unless the river card makes my hand totally untenable, I'm going to call his river bet, assuming he makes one. Of course, if the river makes my Flush, he's getting it with both barrels, should he bet. Yes, he might have A-x of hearts, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. After all, I'm gambling, right? tl:dr that's why you're such a fish bro, can't be bothered to put the effort in... |