blonde poker forum

this hand happened during a tourney in dtd.

basicly this guy had 57 oon a 64ka3 board rainbow.

he lead out and got min raised which he only flat called.


should there be any punishment for flat calling because it caused abit of an arguement on the table.

the 57 guy just said he is new and didnt know he had the nuts.

how can you punish a guy if he genuinely didn't know.

I'm sure something would be done if it was a $20k high roller event with mate vs mate but bit different in a local £50 donkament.

one other guy said that he shouldnt be playing if he didnt know he had the nuts. And he should get a penalty so he will know for the future

the two opponents didnt know each other.

This happened a few weks ago at DTD on my table

I politely told the lady that she isnt allowed to just flat call, but that I realised she didnt play often and was just letting her know. She seemed funny about be telling her the rules, fortunately the dealer  backed me up. I did point out that just 5 mniutes before her husband was also on the table and people might take exception if he was her opponent. Then she got it.

I think if its clear they are a noob - just let them know after the hand

personally i love it when people flat call my raises with the nuts  ;D

if its clear collusion then obv they should get a penalty. Common sense to rule here imo

It really gets my goat when you get people saying "you shouldnt be playing if you didnt know you had the nuts" , we have all been new to the game at some point and made silly mistakes , someone usually "educates" you thats how you learn

like a previous poster said if its a high roller event then i can see why the argument however in a local donkament you have to expect little things like this to crop up from time to time

How about when you bet out on the river with zee nutz and someone reraises you for all his stack !!! how much time are you allowed to recheck your own hand to be sure ?? Nut flush vs a straight, he misread the 3 hearts on the board :-) thank heaven for tired players lololol I was genuinely confused for more than 5 seconds !!

It gets me when someone has AA and checks when an A comes down on the flop. 

ok cool

i didnt think it was a big problem
probs an advantage for me
but the guy was going mad

?

I've seen this happen before. Felt a bit sorry for the guy who flat called because he did get punished as everybody spent then next 30 minutes slating him.

 :goodpost: ;iagree;

only had one spot like this in a live comp and if i cared about the buyin i woulda complained... playing a 30fo at local shithole gala... i have  Ks Ts and the board runs out  9d 8d Td 7d 8s and villain checks to me on the river... i have 6k chips and know i can probably only win by bluffing... i bet 3k... villain only calls with  Jd Ahrt... unbeatable hand... i ask him why he didn't raise and he said he thought i was never going to call anymore LOL... if it was 100fo or above i woulda tried to call the floor and report this as cheating for sure...

I'd like to see a warning given for the situation in op. it makes it clear to the player that they shouldn't do it again and more importantly if the td has dealt with the situation it might stop the other players going on and on about it for the next hour and boring me to tears

def no penalty though

It's all good

meta factors

??

Honestly can't see why it matters

saw a guy flat with a royal flush, last to act at DTD once. It was against HoldorFold and I think she was kinda grateful.

Oh.....

...and this

Why can't someone just flat call with the nuts?

Why can't someone set fire to money?

Used to deal at DTD, there is a penalty in place for people flatting the nuts. Iv multiple times asked the floor to give warnings to players, even if they didnt quite get it.

Its the dealers job to explain to the player that their hand is unbeatable on the river, so there is no reason they shouldnt raise. If they admit to knowing they had the nuts, they can be served a round ban, or in some cases (never seen any), Id guess a disqualification if its serious enough.

As Mantis said, you flat the nuts, you may as well light up your smoke with a £50 note

If theres two left in a hand and by the river they both make the broadway staight the action would have to be raise , reraise ,reraise ,reraise .....etc till all the chips go in.

Yep. So it should.

A more interesting example would be if the board had a rainbow broadway straight on it (or quads with an ace kicker, or a royal flush). Do you bother then?

As a player, yes. Quite a few times now I've shoved with the board having the nuts and people have folded cos they can't read the board properly.

people make mistakes, a quiet word afterwards should suffice.

i love this with the quads - people jsut dont get it

Even better is when you have Ax the board runs out quads and they call the all in (with like KK) thinking they have quads too and its chop chop time- not realising about the kicker. I think there is a famous one with Chad brown [edit found it]

about 3 minutes in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRIRembBbE0

errr wouldnt he be cheating with YOU!!!! as you are the beneficiary of his soft play wouldnt you both be subject to a penalty?

You can't be subject to a penalty if you had no say in how the other played their hand.  Otherwise that would be wide open to angle-shooting and all sorts of interesting stuff.

right that makes sense dont really play live so not really aut fait with all the rulings  just thought it was funny that he would consider calling the floor when he was the beneficiary of the villians poor play.

Would be nice if the dealer didn't take half an hour to pull each successive raise into the middle though and then another half hour splitting the pot...

I did this once in an online game when there were still 5 people in the pot. I was the first to act and did it thinking someone might fold by mistake. They didn't, we all spilt the pot and I got flamed because of the additional rake cost. Didn't bother explaining myself and thought it was worth the extra rake just incase. Stranger things have happened at the poker table.

The rule that you are compelled to bet/raise last to speak with the nuts on the river is wrong and illogical imho. It is based on the seemingly reasonable assumption that the only reason you would ever fail to bet/raise the nuts on the river is if you are colluding with or softplaying someone, and therefore that this should be disallowed. However, this seemingly reasonable assumption is actually flawed. There are situations in tournament poker in which it would be a clear strategic error for you to bet/raise with the nuts on the river.

You are on the bubble. As the big stack you have been bullying the table relentlessly and increasing your stack steadily without ever seeing a flop. The entire table is playing far too tight as they are all trying to sneak into the money, and you have been relentlessly exploiting this. In this situation you want the bubble to continue for as long as possible, and it is actually detrimental to your EV if someone gets knocked out. The reason for this is, of course, that you are likely to be able to increase your chip stack even further if the bubble lasts longer, giving you an even greater chance to win the tournament when the bubble does eventually burst.

You have the nuts on the river. You are hu in the pot against a super short stack. He bets 2/3 of his stack. If you raise he will very likely call and will bust out of the tourney. At that point the bubble will burst, and some of your edge will go down since now your opponents will have made the money and will start to play more optimally. Therefore, raising would be a -EV play. It is in your interest to keep the bubble going longer and this is the only way to do it. In fact, if the short stack had pushed all-in on the river you should probably fold your hand. The EV you would gain from the bubble lasting longer is likely greater than the EV you gain from hoovering up the last of the short stack's chips.

Now granted, this exact situation is not likely to come up in a pure form in practice. However, variations based on its underlying principle  will definitely occur. Clearly a player who chooses not to bet the nuts on the river (or even to fold the nuts) in this sort of spot can be doing so purely for strategic reasons intended to increase his chances of winning the tournament. So the rule that this should not be allowed is wrong imho.

why does numptydumpty have 1 post and is on probabtion?

fake acc?

no its a new account

just so happens to have the same name as an exisiting one I thnk


will investigate, meanwhile welcome to blonde sir

If people are genuinely smart enough to be folding the nuts for strategic advantage in tournaments then my plans to try to satellite into my first major live tournament are on hold! Scary

I've done it before.  Trying to think who the villain was too.  Think I called, as the chips went in I said "I know there's no point in raising as you can't possibly call the raise, I'd rather get to see what hand you stood the flop action with."

Think it might have been Tikay, not sure though.  He won't be able to remember anyway so I'll say it was.

Did I disadvantage the table?  Possibly.  Did the table have fun when he rolled over no pair no draw? Oh yes.

World of difference between a noob not realising the should be getting it in and a player that doesn't want to take chips off his wife/flat mate/%swap etc.

If someone calls you when you've got nothing, can you simply muck the cards, or are you obliged to show?

My understanding, but could be wrong...

If you've led out the bet and been called, they're entitled to see your hand.  In some casinos they make you show but in most you can chance yer arm at folding and hope your opponent doesn't ask to see.

Usually if I call and someone says "you got me, I'm bluffing" I would happily just show my hand and take the pot.  It annoys me when pinheads insist on seeing the hand, particularly with a live one, just let him muck and save face.  Win with a little grace imo.  The argument "but I can see his mucked hand online" seems to miss the rather obvious point that you aren't online here - and lots of other things you can do online can't (and shouldn't) be attempted live.

However, if you are calling, and part of the price of that call is to see your opponents hand, just don't open up.  You called them, they are expected to open up first imo.  If he turbo-mucked, I wouldn't be delighted about it, but I wouldn't make a fuss.  

In this particular spot, it was obv dressed up as a comedy moment, and the victim was more than capable of taking it on the chin - I might have even been doing them a favour.  So the whole point was to make him do the walk of shame.  As a rule, I would never do that with someone I hadn't played a lot with.

I don't get it. That's exactly what I would do. It's not like he was last to act and checked the river is it? I would definetly check the nuts on the flop and maybe the turn if I didn't think they hit. Then blast them on the river. No issue with checking the nuts on the flop at all.

the original post says that a guy just calls the raise with the nuts on the river... basically he should always reraise here... nothing on the original post about the flop and turn...

If your first to act on the river then you are allowed to check here! You cant check behind tho if you have the nuts!

Ah yes, popeye with his royal flush hit on the river against my lower flush .... yes I was kinda grateful in that spot. I asked him afterwards quietly why on earth he didn't re-pop because he would have had the rest of my chips (he had just been flat calling along the streets) and he said "to be honest i was falling asleep, I'm old and get tired, I didnt even realise I had a flush let alone a royal flush"

[ ] wp tikay

I had the nut straight at Luton on the turn, kept reraising, still had the nuts on the river, reraised the better. he reraised I put him all in (Dick Lynch) we had the same hand. I then got 20 mins of him moaning about why did I do that when it was obvious what he had and that we were splitting the pot.

Some guy flat-called a bet with a straight flush in the €25k High Roller event on the river.

I saw this happen last night in our abz G casino, nut straight flatting a min raise on the river...I don't think anyone else at the table even noticed, let alone the dealer, nothing was said. I did find it VERY strange, although in fairness the guy calling didn't have a clue what he was doing the whole night (and he deff never knew villain personally) so maybe no one wanted to frighten him off...is there a rule?!