blonde poker forum

Hand 1.

100/200...Villain has ~ 20k stack, Hero has ~16k stack

Villain opens in EP to 475, picks up 1 caller. Hero is on the button with Ad Kc and 3-bets to 1800. Villain 4-bets to 4.5k. Flat caller folds.

Possible read...Villain is quite new to the table, seems like a solid player and has only played one hand where he flopped top set with TT and boated up on the river. I felt he acted in this hand very similarly to how he did in the Tens hand. This could just be him playing consistently, but felt it could also be strength.

I ended up sigh folding, as I felt Villain's range was strong (perhaps JJ+, AK), and had only committed 1.8k to the hand + didn't feel like I had a ton of fold equity. Is this fold too nitty?


Hand 2.

The very next hand Hero opens to 525 in the cutoff with Jc Jd. Someone at the table comments "don't let that last hand affect you" (I had dwelled up a lot and made a fairly big deal of folding I guess)

Button 3-bets to 1700. Hero now has ~14k, Villain has ~12k

Possible read: We think we recognise the button from a previous tournament or something. Hero has been pretty active on the table, largely due to picking up a ridic large frequency of premium hands. Villain has been somewhere between quiet/semi-active, as far as I recall this is his first 3-bet.

Hero thinks about shoving, doesn't really consider folding (perhaps feel like he could be trying to pick up a pot against someone 'steam raising', plus this is cut-off vs button) but ends up flat calling.

Flop: 8c, 3c, 2d

Hero checks, Villain bets 2.5k.

I felt villain was capable of c-betting whatever he may have 3-bet here and decide to commit to the hand.

I threw in a few of my larger denomination chips, intending to effectively show I was all-in. I'd kinda done this previously with a medium strength hand, so perhaps was trying to show a bit of weakness.

Villain moves all-in, and it turns out it is 5025 more to call.

Hero perhaps underestimated Villain's stack a little, I was always intending my raise to be an all-in kinda move and was never folding to a shove, BUT...

Villain gave the biggest Hollywood performance I've ever seen. Sighing twice, putting his hands on his head, before "reluctantly" moving all-in.

Obviously this is traditionally one of the biggest tells of strength, at least in my experience. Now I'm in a weird spot where there's a gazillion chips in the pot but I feel like I must be drawing to 10%. His Hollywood kinda threw me off because it was so ridiculously over the top, I almost thought it could be some weird reverse tell.

Hero would leave himself with 6k if he folds, but on the other hand does have a backdoor flush draw!


Thoughts on all parts of both hands would be appreciated, however brutal!

Would also fold first hand.  I think 3 betting is fine since either one of the callers can flat pretty wide there.

Hand 2 I think you played fine but on the flop just like make it 5125 or something so at least he can perceive your range to have bluffs in even tho almost never are.  Then call it off.

I think it worked out that I raised to 5.5k in Hand #2.

*in before the 3bet folding AK = 72o arguments*

Thanks for posting the hands. I recently played a deepstack online comp, which went particularly badly. The two hands that crippled me were  whille i was holding AK and JJ. I vowed to myself that i would try and use the experience to try and improve my ability to play these hands. Unfortunately, i haven't had the time yet. I'm hoping that some of the feedback here will help me.
 I've been going out of comps very frequently just lately whilst holding AK. I've also noticed other players bemoaning their fate with AK. Apparently AK v TT is a 43 / 57 underdog, so i do think that players in general do tend to overvalue AK pre flop.
  Regarding the two hands posted. I would agree with the way the first hand was played. With the second hand. I think there is a lot to be said for 4-betting there, particularly as you suspect that villain may be 3-betting light, plus with jacks there will be quite a few flops that you wont like.  I think i would re-raise all in on the flop. It's a great flop for you, but, you are still vulnerable to overcards and the flush draw. With your min-raise on the flop villain may think, correctly, that he has some fold equity with hands like AcKd, AdKd or AcKc.
 Despite villians acting performance, as played, i would still call.
 I think you should have asked for a count of villiain's stack before making the re-raise. This would have given you a chance to possibly get a read on villian as well as allowing you to make a more informed decision.

Hand 1 - I ship. Just looks like you can be soooo light with the button 3 bet and villain must know this.

Hand 2 - If you decided to commit to the hand then what decision is there? you gots ta call.

this for me

yer +1

Yeah I obv wanted to go back and shove the AK when the JJ hand came up, unfortunately they won't let you do that.

JJ I did end up calling, but does this huge tell not affect our decision at all or are we obliged to follow through with our plan?

If anything the Hollywood makes me more likely to call. We're obv pot comitted so all he needs to do is wait a few seconds and say all in. The fact he's gone to these lengths to try and look strong strikes me as a bit weird. That said, if he is weak then this is a v v v ambitious way to try and take the pot down uncontested. Could be 99/TT I guess where he genuinely wasn't sure...

Hand  1 - I play as you played it - sigh fold

Hand 2 - You have to 4 bet the JJ as it is affected by the dynamics  of the previous hand. If villan shoves its another sigh fold.
horrible spot as played and I would trust your read and sigh fold.

hand 1, peeling here in position is really not that bad and i prefer it to 3bet / folding!

hand 2, as played, i click it back on the flop so at least he can spaz with worse.. the weak hands he has 3bet that have now made 1 pair and draws.

4bet folding jacks pre cutoff vs button???

So, you 3-bet fold the AK in the first hand. Then, in hand 2, you 4 bet, again with the intention of folding?

Regardless of what MC has 3-bet folded in the first hand, to the table we have shown we are capable of raising and folding. So, why are we 4 betting here with the intention of folding? What is our 4 bet designed to do? It will either make them lay down all hands we are beating, but also let them win the hand with 5 betting, either with air (probably unlikely, but with dynamic possible), or with their genuine hands we are beat by. Sounds like this is a common raising to find out where you are situation, but this is so exploitable.

Pretty much agree here. Not a fan of 3-bet/folding AK here, in fact, folding AK ever sucks! lol. But seriously would prefer a flat, instead of a 3-bet/fold. If you feel villain is capable of 4 betting light, and you're not folding to a 4 bet, then by all means, 3 bet/get it in. However, this early in this tournament, I doubt many people are raising extremely light.

Hand 1: If villain's decent I just get it in. Our 3 bet looks like a squeeze so he can be 4 betting light. Against most players though I flat the AK and play a flop with position and a nice hand.

Hand 2: Just fold to the 3 bet pre. I'm never getting 60 bigs in with JJ in a live game. Possibly flat to set mine but don't level myself in to thinking my overpair's ahead when the board runs out like this. I don't really love the flat because we aren't deep enough. Much prefer to just pass it.

As played I really have no idea. As I said, if I flat it's to set mine and we haven't hit so I sigh fold.

I actually prefer to donk lead the flop if we're looking to invest any chips at all without a set. At least then if we're planning on getting the lot in we can get it in first rather than having to sigh call knowing we're behind because we've somehow got ourselves in to a 120bb pot despite only having a pair of Jacks.

Easy to say flat with AK after you've been 4 bet. Marc surely a player as aggressive as you is always 3 betting here.

Hand 1: I play it as you do James although it sucks.

Hand 2: Bleh. I probably call flop and see what villian does on turn although as described he's probably never checking. I'd rather cut of my fingers then 4 bet fold pre.

Thank you for explaining my reasoning for 4 betting. I want Villan to fold all hands I am beating and 5 bet all hands that beat me. I am rasing to find out information as to my opponents strength and I believe it will be cheaper to do this pre flop than post flop.
As said the hand is affected by the previous hand, some players may think you are tilt raising and may be trying to exploit that by 3 betting a marginal hand. 4 betting you are saying to the villan that I made a big pass in the last hand and I am not folding again, so lets get the chips in. If Villan is strong enough to move all in then you know you are beat.

JJ is a bitch to play post flop A or K on the flop and you hand is dead, 8 high flop as played and you still have no idea where you are.

As for exploitable, sure I can see some cute players flatting with AA in this spot and wp to them if they do.

Take hand 1 out of the reasoning and I play the hand differently.

Firstly I hate 'raising for information' but it's been mentioned over and over on PHA.

Just one observation though Chris - you make it seem like raising for information will always get you the correct information. It wont.

Chris that's not a fullproof way of getting information though. What if your opponent shoves a worse hand?

Esp when raising for "info" costs you so much of your stack.

Also Cos is right- there's no reason why our opponent won't jam tens or maybe even 9s in this spot given history. And if you're 4 bet folding you may as well have 24 off suit rather than jacks.

Replied to the post below in segments.


Umm, why? You don't want to extract value from tens/nines/etc? As for villain to 5 bet all hands that beat us, he may well do, but this probably doesn't make his whole range. What about bluffs? What about hands like AK? Do we want him to 5 bet this?


Villain does not always fold hands we are beating.
Villain does not always shove hands we are beat by.


Have you never been bluffed before?

pretty sure you guys just got leveled

+1

I'll bet you £100 we didnt?

-1

ok well that was about the only polite way i could reply to the strategy itt

ak/jj = 72o ;)

Re hand 2. I hope Chris Bruce's reply advocating the 4 bet wasn't a level. It actually made a lot of sense to me. I have to admit that i've seen the reveal, but, to me, 4-betting and taking down a nice pot when villian folds a worse hand seems pretty reasonable. Ok, if villian folds a lot of hands that we are miles ahead of such as TT we are missing out on a lot of value, but isn't it better to do this, rather than risk letting the villian outdraw us with many other hands in his, in this case, wide range, such as suited connectors, small pairs etc.
 I'm just concerned that by flat calling the three bet, we let the villiain see that flop, and possibly outdraw us, at his price, rather than one set by ourselves. And, as in this case, we don't really know where we stand in the hand.
 Dont worry, i can take it if you want to tell me that i'm taking rubbish. Try not to ridicule me too much though. Good Luck in Cov James, and anyone else who reads this that's playing there this week. :)

[ ] I am often seen trying to level people on this forum

On a side note I am obviously not getting my share of premium starting hands in these tournaments.

I think thread has run its course and mc should do the decent thing and post how the hand ended.

Judging by how early he left I'd guess it went [ ] well.

[X] Correct

He had Kings.

Thanks for the input on the hands. I was kinda beating myself up about the hand combo but perhaps I didn't play them too tez, even if other options were slightly better...