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PokerStars Game #44191447539: Tournament #2010050372, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (250/500) - 2010/05/16 21:27:08 UTC [2010/05/16 17:27:08 ET]
Table '2010050372 509' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Djelly (10566 in chips)
Seat 2: the_hindle (41059 in chips)
Seat 3: pochi (8945 in chips)
Seat 4: atalle (12586 in chips)
Seat 5: outragous76 (58220 in chips)
Seat 6: patek3970 (17632 in chips)
Seat 7: AceTorpedo (16887 in chips)
Seat 8: ElCanalla (72434 in chips)
Seat 9: Phily88 (32423 in chips)
Djelly: posts the ante 60
the_hindle: posts the ante 60
pochi: posts the ante 60
atalle: posts the ante 60
outragous76: posts the ante 60
patek3970: posts the ante 60
AceTorpedo: posts the ante 60
ElCanalla: posts the ante 60
Phily88: posts the ante 60
Djelly: posts small blind 250
the_hindle: posts big blind 500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to outragous76 [Kh Ad]
pochi: folds
atalle: raises 500 to 1000
outragous76: raises 2333 to 3333
patek3970: calls 3333
AceTorpedo: folds
ElCanalla: folds
Phily88: folds
Djelly: folds
the_hindle: folds
atalle: folds

should be aces or kings really if he's decent

if. which he probably isn't
so add pairs down to 9s (maybe lower) and possibly aqs type hands too

u think anyone decent flats aces or kings here?

prob 10s/j's sometimes see aces.

prob should have said i think its pretty terrible to flat any other hands than those two here.

Not saying I think best play is to flat AA or KK.

as soon as he flatted i thought ACES

just not sure that he does it with any other hand (ok maybe KK).

not that it matters but he got it in on a 862 rainbow flop

its a 200f on a sunday, he has 22+, ATs+, AJo+, KJs+, KQo, QJs, JTs.

bewilders me how we can get to 250/500 without any reads then ask for flatters range.  how long is a piece of string!  some players its AA, some players play 40% of hands... a quick OPR/PTR search should give you some sort of indication.

[  ] thanks for your input

The guy is flatting a 3 bet for nearly 20% of his stack - not only that but it is a very EP raise and EP 3 bet and he isnt closing the action

You think his play is standard do you?

Well since most players would shove a strong hand here, and it's a sunday, i'll assume he's a drooler and can be flatting a wide range here.  Don't know why you got so defensive, it's pretty clear that all players don't play the same and this is the kind of spot where knowing if he's a 13/11 or 52/3 is clearly going to help (and information you should have either through a HUD or through observation).  If you just moved to the table you can estimate this information based on his OPR/PTR stats (hint: if he's losing, he's probably not very good).  Apologies to everyone else for repeating myself.

prob the tone of your first post dude.

In a tourney where half the field have satted in for $10?

Pockets nines or tens +, AQ+ IMO.

just for giggles, gimme your opinion on a rough range breakdown pls rupert (not a windup, genuinely intrigued)

1) new to table, 50 comps on him on opr, massive winner

2) been on table for a while (havent seen do anything too out of line), 1000 comps on him on opr, marginal loser

3) new to table, running at 10/8 over 15 hands, 100 comps on him, winner

3) been with us from the start, playing 20/15, stacked one guy earlier in a 3b multiway pot on the flop with a set, small loser over 2000mtts on opr.

personally, i couldnt see anyway to differentiate between ANY of these guys range for flatting 20% of their stack preflop to this action. I think it QQ+ and not a single other hand.

Yeah I agree they're all pretty similar, was going more for the extremes e.g. player with OPR of -30% over 300 MTTs.  Go broke on nearly all flops.  Player with VPIP >30 over 100 hands, go broke on nearly all flops.  Player is huge loser at cash games but OPR is pretty much empty, go broke on nearly all flops. etc etc

1) would check PTR since he hasn't played many tournies to see if he's some sort of cash game sicko.  If nothing then his stats are relatively meaningless... Good stat to check is average buyin on OPR as higher tends to mean better player.  If he typically plays $2/180s then I think you can happily assume he binked some big tourney and just go broke w AK

2/3/4) clearly has pretty solid preflop game so can assume they are strong here

There's obv not a great deal of information to be had if you've just moved to the table, but in all likelihood you've been at the table for 50 hands and it's worth so much money to know they can be flatting QJo or 44 here than if they just have QQ+.

lol following your opening comment with that

solid response tbf, wonder how many mtt grinders really go to this much of a length in looking at players when putting in a big session, over/under on 10% of fulltimers?

@Keys yeah I just do it on the fly.  If I go deep in something will OPR people to get an idea of if they are any good or not but likely have lots of hands on them by that point so pay more weight to that.

@AM obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but a lot of MTTers are staked/massive stoners/really lazy and don't take MTTs as seriously as perhaps they could if they were looking to make more money.  Basically a lot are happy to just grind out their B game content with 40% ROIs or w/e is decent but unimpressive (I mostly play cash but dabble in MTTs from time to time and can understand how easy it is to autopilot these things)

I'm not exactly a grinder but I always OPR the 2 to my left or right if I'm getting towards the business end of a comp.

As Rupert says you can pick out quite a lot of info. For example if someone plays hundreds of 180 man comps you can be pretty sure that his push fold strat is up to scratch and he'll be shoving wide if he gets short.

All I do is note ABI, ITM and whether they're a winner or loser. Sometimes add a few other bits if something leaps out.

THis is a good idea but can also be very limiting - like when you get 14% itm break even small winning players with 33-55 av buy in - all the fkn time

i now just right click ont eh player and "find games" and if they are in more than 5 assume they are semi competant

Yeah OPR/PTR have obvious limitations.  HUD should definitely be first line of action though, holdem manager pays for itself in very little time at all.