blonde poker forum

Came across this hand on today. Wondered if any1 had any thoughts. Any feedback would be highly appreciated.


***** Hand History for Game 3221496264 *****

$200 NL Texas Hold'em

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9

Seat 1: Rumi_Mowlana ( $369.10 )
Seat 3: dembums2005 ( $155.25 )
Seat 7: snoopy1239 ( $252.15 )
Seat 8: juicebol ( $242.30 )
Seat 9: deathtax ( $197.70 )
Seat 10: tiltno ( $190.05 )
Seat 4: Zoe_69 ( $369 )
Seat 2: nayrktz ( $65.80 )
Seat 6: drunkpunk_ ( $200 )

Zoe_69 posts small blind [$1].
drunkpunk_ posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  5c 7c ]

snoopy1239 raises [$5].
juicebol folds.
deathtax folds.
tiltno calls [$5].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$5].
nayrktz folds.
dembums2005 calls [$5].
Zoe_69 folds.
drunkpunk_ folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, Jc, 3c ]


What would you do now if you were in my position?

I'd bet out my usual continuation bet, normally around 2/3 pot.

Would you be hoping for a call, or do you just want to take the pot there and then?

beautiful flop for you snoopy   i love raising with these types of hands because when they hit you can get paid big time

i would bet 2/3 of the pot here

if someone has the jack it allows them to raise you then you can move all in and make them pass if they call its pretty much 50/50 anyway

chances are they will pass though and believe you for the over pair

if the nut flush calls against you   you still have 10 outs against him

chances are you can take this pot without seeing the turn

im sure most people would play this hand diff from me

I was wondering if any1 would attempt a check raise here.

brunson says he never check raises

he likes to bet out just under the size of the pot  hit or miss

if he hits and someone wants to raise him and has the chance to move it all in

you have 3 people behind you so a good chance that someone has caught something

question is what are you trying to do      do you want to draw and hit your hand or take it down on the flop

I think I'd be happy to take the pot on the flop. My position is weak, and any1 with top pair or a flush draw will have complete control over me.

I like you idea of moving all-in if someone reraises, but I'm kinda worried that they'll call with AJ or bigger flush draw.

thats the power of the re reraise

if some1 has the aj   they should now pass it with the strength that you are showing

if someone has the nut flush draw they may not want to call for all there chips   
but if they do  you still have 9 outs at worst to move in front so yr a 40/60 shot

so you have outs if you get called by any hand aj  flush draw or set

remember you raised preflop what flop are you looking for with this hand

Snoopy, I'm happy with a call behind me but I'm also happy to take the pot here and now.  What Dave says about the reraise all in is interesting, and I do the same in some cases but it really depends on opponent.  You don't want to be moving in if you're certain they'll call, only if you think there's decent odds that they'll pass.

Watching how players play when they hit top pair is quite important, many players will raise a continuation bet with top pair in the same way every time to define their hand.  With these players moving in will make them pass.  Some as I'm sure your aware will call an all in if they've reraised you with top pair so calling their raise and assessing the turn is probably your best bet with this type of player.  If the turn doesn't help and you really want to see a river then a "stopper" bet can sometimes work (about 1/5th pot) which hopefully they just call and let you see it cheaply.

With the trickier players who sometimes just call with their top pair/set, sometimes raise then the hand becomes tougher to play. 

BET OUT, hoping to win it there and then. If not, you can still follow up on the turn

I have seen 77Dave push/re-raise all in a lot on these type of situations, live

IMO to do this you have to pick your opponent..some aren't going to lay down AJ to this move, so by routinely doing this you are automatically increasing your variance

remember you are the initial raiser preflop of $5

just because someone has hit the j doesnt mean they have aj   it could quite as easily be kj qj or even jt

the other advantage is that if the straight comes on the turn it will be completely disguised

if the flush comes they may put you on it  it seems a lot of people like betting out on the flush draw

i understand that you need to play this hand differently against different people but until you make the initial bet on the flop you wont know which

of the 3 if any have caught part of the flop

If my check or bet is raised, is it worth just flatcalling with my hand?

IMO yes, but it's fair to say my style is different from 77 Dave who will shove it in and win it there and then or have a fall back of hitting

and if u miss the turn?

Would u bet again?

i might check, hoping he checks.then if I hit on the river, I will throw a check in there too, saying "I give up"...cue the steal bet from him and you've won another bet

wins me a lot of £ that one

This is what happened next. I promise there is an end to the hand this time :D


***** Hand History for Game 3221496264 *****

$200 NL Texas Hold'em

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9

Seat 1: Rumi_Mowlana ( $369.10 )
Seat 3: dembums2005 ( $155.25 )
Seat 7: snoopy1239 ( $252.15 )
Seat 8: juicebol ( $242.30 )
Seat 9: deathtax ( $197.70 )
Seat 10: tiltno ( $190.05 )
Seat 4: Zoe_69 ( $369 )
Seat 2: nayrktz ( $65.80 )
Seat 6: drunkpunk_ ( $200 )

Zoe_69 posts small blind [$1].
drunkpunk_ posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  5c 7c ]

snoopy1239 raises [$5].
juicebol folds.
deathtax folds.
tiltno calls [$5].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$5].
nayrktz folds.
dembums2005 calls [$5].
Zoe_69 folds.
drunkpunk_ folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, Jc, 3c ]

snoopy1239 bets [$15].
tiltno calls [$15].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$15].
dembums2005 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]


What would you do now and what do you think the other players hold?

cry!

close my eyes and bet again


or check-call


 :dontask:

You're in severe problems if someone called with the nutflush draw though as they've know hit their ace and you only have 3 outs against them...

you have 2 or 6 to hit for the straight so thats 6 atleast.i bet again

Bet again. Represent the Ace. If he has AJ, well unlucky.If he does, he'll might make it cheap enough for you to draw on the river. I would bet $40

Oops, thought it was only a gutshot!

I would check, call.

I don't understand the flat callers here after the flop, means 2 things to me.
1) they are drawing too (which is a disaster flush wise)
2) they have trips or 2 pair and want to keep it low till the turn (no club, bet big and take it)

Personally i would have checked the flop to see what happens and called a moderate bet, i'm not committed to the pot yet.
Having bet the flop and got callers i think checking will induce a good sized bet (you have to fold) or betting and having to throw away to a reraise.
Again personally having invested $20 i am prepared to let this go now, you are definitely behind (you have nothing) and the flush draw may well be no good anyway leaving 3 outs.
Check.

At this point, I have to think that I'm in trouble. There's a decent chance that one has the draw, and the other has the hand alreayd, which means I'm pretty much stuffed.

My guess would that 1 has the nut flush draw, and the other is either slowplaying a set, or has a top pair, AJ, KJ, QJ, or TJ, all feasible holdings.

Therefore, considering both of these hands are going to call a bet, it would probably be best to check. If they do hold these hands, then I've got a relatively good chance of being given a free card, obviously depending on the palying style of my opponents.

If they did bet, I could try the checkraise, but I'm not overly keen. Being online, the nut flush draw, will still call. A made hand such as trips or 2 pair will also play. Even if they have just top pair, they could still stick it in, especially online.

Also, if you consider the arrival of the ace, even if they were making a loose call on the flop, this card could easily have hit several preflop calling hands.

So, in reflection, I say checkcall and hope for a miracle river.

If you're betting, it's because you're trying to push them off the hand, not to build the pot. I really doubt that they have folding hands.

i dont know, i am taking this month off poker (pretty much) so I guess I would buy you a beer and tell you to tell someone who cares :ironside: :hello: :dontask: ;applause; ;scarymoment; ;karabiner; ;karabiner; ;applause; ;scarymoment; ;karabiner; ;applause; ;scarymoment; ;karabiner; rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao

he could have 10/10, 99, 88 etc... you've represented strenght, he's called your initial bet, an ace has dropped on the turn, IMO you have to bet again.

There are two callers though.

Me and my reading skills...

If there was just one, I'd probably bet out again, especially with my potential outs.

all my comments are for heads up play, I thought that the Snoop Dog of Solihull was playing againts one opponent only.

i am playing against 1 opponet tonight AMSTEL LIGHT, evryone to the Bahamas for free beer on the rookie!

Cmon. How many u had?  8)

(http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/drunk2.gif)

not that many, enough to know i aint playing any more poker tonight 8) just having fun reading the posts i have missed! 8)

On the left The Rookie  - on the right Dingdell - i introduce to you the blonde heads up team for the bahamas leg of the world drinking tour - led by eminent expert drinker Brian Wilson.......

(is this the right time to mention that with one drink I'm funny, with two I'm comatosed?  I am very concerned I may not be able to keep up)

I'm obviously behind at the moment, butthe first thing i'd do is try and imagine what my opponents put me on. I raised pre-flop and bet solidly on the flop, with a good number of opponents behind me. That would make me appear to have: AJ, QQ, KK, AA or possibly AKc

Now bearing this in mind I got 2 callers, the first getting at least 2-1 on his money and the the second at least 3-1. So my guestimates are:

Opponent 1 may be:
- 20% drawing to the flush (not that much chance at that money and with potential reraisers behind him)
- 40% slowplaying trips (possible, but less so because of the flushing board, and with other players still potentialy involved).
- 40% has top pair with a dodgy kicker J-Q or J-K. A terrible call, but you see it all the time. He knows you might bet the flop, but can't bring himself to reraise because of your possible hands.

Opponent 2 may be:
- 10% slowplaying trips (enough money in the pot to reraise now, especially with the dangerous board).
- 75% drawing to the flush (very feasible. reraise unlikely to knock both opponents out, especially with the hand your, and very good value due to the first caller)
- 15% has top pair with a dodgy kicker. Less likely than opponent 1 - two players have called before him. he's not in good shape and would know it.

ok given this and the ace dropping, I'm actually tempted to bet at it. The top pair and even the flush draw (even if its Ace-rag) can still be ejected here, and although i'm worried about the trips, i think there's a good chance that opponent 1 would have raised to get rid of someone with the flush draw on the flop.

Given all this off-ze-cuff analysis, I say bet strong ;)




I however, would have checked and hoped for a free card like the big wuss that I am...

Some intersting response. A real mixed bag. This is what happened next.


***** Hand History for Game 3221496264 *****

$200 NL Texas Hold'em

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9

Seat 1: Rumi_Mowlana ( $369.10 )
Seat 3: dembums2005 ( $155.25 )
Seat 7: snoopy1239 ( $252.15 )
Seat 8: juicebol ( $242.30 )
Seat 9: deathtax ( $197.70 )
Seat 10: tiltno ( $190.05 )
Seat 4: Zoe_69 ( $369 )
Seat 2: nayrktz ( $65.80 )
Seat 6: drunkpunk_ ( $200 )

Zoe_69 posts small blind [$1].
drunkpunk_ posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  5c 7c ]

snoopy1239 raises [$5].
juicebol folds.
deathtax folds.
tiltno calls [$5].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$5].
nayrktz folds.
dembums2005 calls [$5].
Zoe_69 folds.
drunkpunk_ folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, Jc, 3c ]

snoopy1239 bets [$15].
tiltno calls [$15].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$15].
dembums2005 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]

snoopy1239 bets [$40].
tiltno raises [$80].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$80].


Okay, what now? Fold, call, raise? If I raise, do I just move all-in?

Ouch

A raise all in would be the ballsy move, setting up a nice squeeze play on the middle player who can only surely call with a v good Ace fearing what's behind him, but boy, hairy

How about call, and then check fold if you miss?

I've clearly got no balls!

Nah, I think you're right.

If they've got this far, and they're prepared to reraise my third consecutive bet, then I doubt reraising all-in will force them to fold.

I reckon call, check, fold is the best option.

It's way too cheap too fold, especially with the straight draw to boot.

Flush draw is no good, put it down.

Do I not have pot odds to call to hit one of my straight cards?

Shoulda thrown the hand away ages ago, talk about (http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/beat_deadhorse.gif)

You have 6 outs, so work it out!

The problem also lies in the reverse implied odds, if you make the flush and someone bets 50 are you going to fold?

I'll have around $150 left. If I hit a straight and move in, one of them is bound to call. On this basis, I have pot odds. Otherwise, no.

Do you pass if you hit the flush?

Yes, because I'm almost 100% sure that one of them has the flush draw.

Probably the 2nd guy who is flatcalling everything.

 8)

What happened then?  ::) ::) ::)

***** Hand History for Game 3221496264 *****

$200 NL Texas Hold'em

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9

Seat 1: Rumi_Mowlana ( $369.10 )
Seat 3: dembums2005 ( $155.25 )
Seat 7: snoopy1239 ( $252.15 )
Seat 8: juicebol ( $242.30 )
Seat 9: deathtax ( $197.70 )
Seat 10: tiltno ( $190.05 )
Seat 4: Zoe_69 ( $369 )
Seat 2: nayrktz ( $65.80 )
Seat 6: drunkpunk_ ( $200 )

Zoe_69 posts small blind [$1].
drunkpunk_ posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  ]

snoopy1239 raises [$5].
juicebol folds.
deathtax folds.
tiltno calls [$5].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$5].
nayrktz folds.
dembums2005 calls [$5].
Zoe_69 folds.
drunkpunk_ folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ , , three clubs ]

snoopy1239 bets [$15].
tiltno calls [$15].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$15].
dembums2005 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]

snoopy1239 bets [$40].
tiltno raises [$80].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$80].

snoopy1239 calls [$40].

** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]


It's me to go first. I have $152.15 left. Do I check or bet, and if I bet, how much should I shove in?

 ;santacancan;

wow, you (http://www.chins-n-quills.com/forums/images/smilies/fishswim.gif)

AAAAAALLLLLLIIIIIINNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!

this is the reason why i want to get my money in on the flop while i still have the outs if they want to call

implied odds only count if you get them to call if you hit your hand

you are now stuck with the problem of getting them to put the rest of their chips in

you have spent your time thinking about what you thought they had   now you have to consider what they think you have

if you nove all in   now  what hand can they put you on

if you move allin the flush draw will pass  if someone has aj or two pair or trips they will prob call

a check might be the way to go   let the missed flush draw bluff at it   or let the aj make a value bet

im convinced that if you check someone will bet then you raise all in

I think I might go all-in here.

I reckon the 1st guy has 2 pair, or trips, and the other guy has a missed flush draw.

Unless he's a complete maniac, I don't think I can depend on the missed flush draw betting the river. He must know the other guy has something after he raised my bet on the turn.

The flush draw is last to speak, so if the first fella has 2 pair or trips, his value bet will make him fold anyhow.

I'm also worried that the fella with trips or 2 pair will get cold feet and just check.

However, with the pot that big, he'll probably call my all-in.

Bet 150

CHECK

as if you were on the flush draw. LET HIM BET and then a modest dwell and all-in if he has not put you all in

He can't put you on your starting hand, he will think his hand is good

CHECK FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE.....this works so often for me it's untrue

For those wondering how it all panned out:


***** Hand History for Game 3221496264 *****

$200 NL Texas Hold'em

Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9

Seat 1: Rumi_Mowlana ( $369.10 )
Seat 3: dembums2005 ( $155.25 )
Seat 7: snoopy1239 ( $252.15 )
Seat 8: juicebol ( $242.30 )
Seat 9: deathtax ( $197.70 )
Seat 10: tiltno ( $190.05 )
Seat 4: Zoe_69 ( $369 )
Seat 2: nayrktz ( $65.80 )
Seat 6: drunkpunk_ ( $200 )

Zoe_69 posts small blind [$1].
drunkpunk_ posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to snoopy1239 [  5c 7c ]

snoopy1239 raises [$5].
juicebol folds.
deathtax folds.
tiltno calls [$5].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$5].
nayrktz folds.
dembums2005 calls [$5].
Zoe_69 folds.
drunkpunk_ folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4s, Jc, 3c ]

snoopy1239 bets [$15].
tiltno calls [$15].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$15].
dembums2005 folds.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]

snoopy1239 bets [$40].
tiltno raises [$80].
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$80].
snoopy1239 calls [$40].

** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]

snoopy1239 is all-In.
tiltno folds.
Rumi_Mowlana calls [$152.15].

snoopy1239 shows [ 5c, 7c ] a straight, three to seven.

Rumi_Mowlana shows [ 4c, Ac ] two pairs, aces and fours.

snoopy1239 wins $609.30 from  the main pot  with a straight, three to seven.


Tiltno claimed to have folded trip fours.

Nice  8)

The guy with A4 played it awfully.

The guy who claims he had trip 4's (which I doubt) also played it awfully.