blonde poker forum

It is the first hand of the EPT Grand Final.  Blinds in those days were 25/50 and we start with 15000 chips each.

First hand, mediterranean fella, looks a bit of a newbie raises to 500.

You look down and see  Kd Kc and reraise to 1000. 

Oppo ships his 15000 in the middle.

What now?

the sklansky tourney book from the 70's or whenever says to fold. this happened to someone i know in an EPT, very early on not 1st hand tho, villain was french and seemed likely to be a fish, he couldn't bring himself to fold, french guy had AA ldo

flat pre?

why flat pre?

To avoid

Oppo ships his 15000 in the middle.

What now?

why 3b get it in super super deep against players who are tez?

if you're answer is dont

why 3b/fold KK?


we are super deep, play teh streetz.

But does that avoid flop  9h 5s 2s, oppo ships 15000 in middle? ;)

I just don't get all this- let's flat with everything apart from aces pre. Are we really expecting opponent to 4 bet all in? I want some value from this hand pre antes. If he 4 bets all in I'm happy to fold- really not concerned about turning the hand into a bluff. If opponent 4 bets I'll flat and play the streets.

Actually scratch that- didn't realised villian had 10xed it pre

hes already shown a desire to overbet, his 4bet sizing probably is going to be around 3-4k, hard to play the first "street" (the flop) with 8k itm and 11k behind.

also 3betting and having the guy fold another pair would be horrible esp as thats where wed get most value from this hand.

read above- as I said I didn't realise he had 10xed it.

With zero reads, you've got to call.

Range is AA, KK, QQ and AK and sometimes total air.

yeah sorry mate, was posting whilst you edited :)

This was a Ben Grundy hand when I was there back in 2007.

The fold felt right at the time.  I think as poker has moved on I'd like to think I'd snap it off these days.

Something like this happened to me at the GUKPT Cov last month.
After about 20 min play I'm on the bb the button raises approx 8x the bb. I re-pop it to 1500 and button shoves. We are both have rough starting stacks of 15K.
I think for 30 secs and call with my KK just hoping he's not got AA.
On the backs we both table KK for the chop.

Not sure if it's the right play but at the time thought I couldn't summon the pass. I'd probs do it again.

We're not readless, we've got that he looks amateurish which means that this is probably the biggest buyin tournament he's ever played which takes QQ, AK and total air out of his range, making this a fold.

cant recall something like this happening so hard to give a honest answer but going to be brave an say even ina 10k event unfortunately not sure im good enough to pass an with no previous reads im calling an crying if he shows aa

What do you base that reasoning on?

How do you know an amateur who hasn't played much doesn't just consider QQ the nuts or AK the nuts.

I agree with the fold but not your reasoning. Just playing devils advocate a little bit.

We also have that he made it 500 preflop, so he obvisouly really likes his hand. Live players, especially amateurs generally play scared to 3bets. Think about how many times you've been 4bet early in a bigger buyin live tournament by a guy fitting this description. He might be some millionaire businessman thats just there to give the EPT a spin but thats less likely than him being a random internet qualifier thats never played a tournament anything close to this big.

Its not perfect but thats all we've got to go on. As much as I hate the 'wait for a better spot' line of reasoning that so many people use as an excuse to pass up thin edges I do think that its applicable in this spot. Unless we have reason to believe that his range is wider than KK+ (which I don't think we do) then we have to fold.