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Full Tilt Poker Game #21565009963: $24 + $2 Sit & Go (166352719), Table 3 - 300/600 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:01:11 ET - 2010/06/12
Seat 1: Richardyos (7,772)
Seat 2: xandengas (5,240)
Seat 3: king mullet (5,172)
Seat 4: Cmkons (11,553)
Seat 5: kostas1989 (3,966)
Seat 6: GreekStein (9,453)
Seat 7: Flash_back1 (24,344)
Flash_back1 posts the small blind of 300
Richardyos posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GreekStein [Ts Tc]
xandengas folds
king mullet folds
Cmkons folds
kostas1989 folds
GreekStein raises to 1,500
Flash_back1 raises to 24,344, and is all in
Richardyos folds
GreekStein...................

not sure i call this

your hoping he turns up with a pp< TT

but i think your racing at best

then again really depends if you have any reads
and if you think he is going to be a bully with 2x stack of 2nd spot

how many till bubble?

ya sorry forgot to say, 45man sit n go, so 6 places paid.

think the idea here to get the chips in first or get into the cash first then gamble

dont think i want to call off my stack on the bubble when you can get your buy in back then gamble for the win

This is why you just shove your entire range, but there isn't a chance in hell I am folding something this good.

Pretty sure you should be shoving here

yeah i have no problem with shoving

but i dont call the way its been played

would love to see longys icm thingymyjig

yeh possibly, kinda wanted to raise to induce. i called.

and bubbled?

def call now.

yup!

you think he would of passed if you shoved?

ie was it a cold deck?

ICM this is a fold,I sigh fold here

Cos what would u do in a $3.30 game?

done exactly the same bud

he had 33 and flopped a set.

shove pre tho right?

i still stick to shove pre

as played fold

What did oppo have Cos? Was this a cooler or just a bad beat?

he had 3's. Was going to post regardless of result though because I felt I was raising to induce from the blinds and when the big stack shipped I didn't actually snap, which I always do when I'm inducing obv.

Just couldn't take that the big stack was trying to exploit me and I know I'm well ahead of his range. Obv I can get into the money if I just fold but if I call and win here (when I'm likely to be significantly ahead or flipping) I'm pretty much a lock to finish in the top one or two spots.

I'm really not sure I like shoving though. Can someone explain a bit more as to why I'd shove? People don't peel in these but they might reshove worse as well as better (which is going in anyway) so isn't it better to give them the chance to do that?

Raise call looks absolutely fine here.

Ye with these stack sizes I would've just jammed pre

in a 45man comp SURELY betcall is gonna have a much higher expectation than open jam against opponents that can think. I mean sod doing the math on it but id be astounded if someone could prove otherwise.

really like to hear more views on this and why the sng guys like monda just jam because I follow the same line of thought as Alex/Flops here

It's an interesting question. I'm going for the shove pre-flop as being the best choice. My thinking is that the possible gain in equity that you acheive by inducing your opponent to shove with hands that you are way ahead of, such as 33, doesn't compensate for the fact that the moment your opponent shoves, all of your equity is at risk. 
By raising, and inducing a shove, you are still only slightly better than 6 to 4 favourite against his likely shoving range. So, by shoving pre-flop, you may reduce the variance, without damaging your equity too much. Dont know if that makes any sense. Thought i'd have a go as these TT type hands give me a lot of trouble too. :)

Personally I just jam this.

QQ / KK / AA I raise call but TT is a jam for me.

There's so many easy chips to be won from jamming that you don't need to be raise calling and giving yourself decisions.

Also there's a risk of some fish calling from his 6bb stack then shoving the K high flop. Obviously you call thinking he's clearly not got AK or KQ only to be shown K3o

Pretty sure I raise to 1500 and call this off in a button vs blind situation. We have over 15bigs I am not a fan of shoving, even though it is almost certainly +ev. I think raise/call or even raise/fold against a nit with a similar stack has a more ++ev outcome.

If this was a bubble of a 9man, yeah maybe folding is good, but in a 45 man the structure is a lot more top heavy esp on tilt. That doubling up here is deffo of value to us.

Also constantly shoving 15bbs if your a reg in these games is deffo going to diminsh your +ev opportunities in the future.

We sure want K-3 to fold pre.

Yeah, not folding this blind on blind

Might go for a limp/re-shove line here sometimes...

It's not bvb,ICM this is a fold yeah ?? 1010 is deifinitely my decision line but it's a sigh fold for me if it's a reg,I probably call if it's a donk.If this is a reg the only hand in his range we are ahead is 99,his range would be 99+ AQ+ AJs+ for a normal reg,i really think we can let this go in this spot.

I don't agree with this, if a reg opens the button near the bubble and i am in the sb with a monster stack. I am reshoving a hell of a lot wider than that, for reasons very much outlined in this thread that people would fold 10's here making a reshove very profitable.

Yeah you would because your good,most the regs aren't that good to see this as an exploitable spot,imo.

?!?!

Beg to differ.

I'm thinking of the 6's and 12's so yeah I'm prob wrong there,I still think we should fold and I prefer open jamming then bet/call.

In a scheduled MTT I would bet call, unless SB was Rock of Gibraltar.)

In a 9man I would shove.  (I don't want to shove >12 BBs really, but meh)

In a 45/90 man I have had trials at playing it both ways.  Bet/calling and failing to get there against Qx for so long that you finally decide to give up and just jam, which may lose some EV but at least stops the outdraws long enough to regain your sanity.

I'm not sure I agree with your range for the SB there Raymond, pretty sure I've seen regs turn over weirder shite than that.  Pairs all the way down, some "blackjack hands" and some "button open, he can't poss call the re-raise" moves.  They aren't particularly looking to exploit you in a Longy way, they either a) think they are winning or b) refuse to give you a genuine hand for your button raise or c) don't have the genuine sb range that they should at this stage of the tourny.

I did say that's a standard regs range and I think it's about right.Also I'm not jamming to prevent being outdrawn
just ppl peel a lot when shallow and shouldn't whereby most flops aren't good for us.

I did forget that tilt ones don't have ante's,do you just shove on stars ?

Yeah I do with antes, as 15bbs with antes = 10 bbs without antes roughly.

I play a few of these, I would push pre, but fold as played.

ICM definitely makes this a fold as played but I really don't like open shoving. You're pretty much gunna fold out everything you beat and get called by everything that has you crushed.

If someone has SNGWiz or SNG Power Tools could you run the calculation and see how wide SB has to be shoving to make TT a call here?

honest opinion is you are not my hero !

Oopsie misread the hand...

Ugh this is pretty close, def get it in if villain is aggro, def fold if they are a nit.