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***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 719808613 *****
PL $0.50/$1 Omaha - Monday, June 21, 16:46:38 GMT 2010
Table Upper Rhine 07 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of active players : 5
Seat 1: Hitandrun ( $161.57 )
Seat 2: TrentBoyett ( $50 )
Seat 3: man21 ( $99 )
Seat 4: famagusta 9 ( $153.84 )
Seat 5: Megiddo ( $89.88 )
Seat 6: z3r0 ( $131.55 )
man21 posts small blind [$0.50]
famagusta 9 posts big blind [$1]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hitandrun [ 6s, Jd, 6c, Kc ]
Megiddo folds
z3r0 raises to [$3.50]
Hitandrun calls [$3.50]
man21 folds
famagusta 9 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Ts, Ac ]
z3r0 bets [$7.20]
Hitandrun calls [$7.20]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
z3r0 checks
Hitandrun bets [$17.17]
z3r0 raises to [$74.41]

Fold pre comments not required

I'm never folding here.

but I really really want to!

I'm just curious Chris, are you not wanting people to say fold pre because you also agree you should fold pre or because you think you can call this hand profitably IP pre?

As flops said, never ever folding here. If we're not beat now we have a ton of outs and we could also be crushing his A10xx hands.

I don't get the question Chris?

You called with a bad hand pre and have turned about as good as it gets.

Seriously what more did you want?

Just get it in, sigh when his set of tens beats you then remember to fold pre next time.

Re preflop- there is a big difference between Kc Jd 6c 6s and  Kc Jc 6d 6s. I might play the latter.

Would like you to expand on this......

you can flop a set + fd

Kerching!!!!!

You can still flop a set + FD though.

More important is that if you flop a set with the bad hand you need 3 of 4 rather than potentially 3 of 5 to actually make the flush.

This confuses me aswell, whats the difference? The only difference that I can see is that with the Kc Jc you're less likely to get paid off by a worse Q flush or J flush because your opponent can't have the J flush.

Is this because you know that you should have folded pre or because you just don't want to? This should be a snapfold imo.

The turn should be a check call because the majority of your value from this hand is going to be when you river your flush or straight against a set. Betting just lets him raise you off your big draw. He almost certainly has AAxx here imo.

Preflop stats (if you have them) would help greatly here because some people only raise AAxx, KKxx hands pre, especially at .50/1 where people tend to play pretty straightforward.

As played the turn is a call, but only just. Against AAxx you have exactly 33.33% equity, so you need to be getting 2 to 1 to call. Its $57.24 to call and there is $114.54 in the pot. Searching for z3r0 on PTR draws a blank so we have no reason to assume that he's good and that he's check folding on a club river and he's definitely not folding on an offsuit Q river or the 6. He has $60.54 back on the river so if you get that every time you hit your draw, with the implied odds of getting the rest of his stack (0.33 x 60.54) then you're actually calling $57.24 to win $134.52 so you get 2.35 to 1

Because flop cant come  6c Xc Xd giving us flush draws and sets.

I wouldnt play either but the KcJc hand can hit far more combi draws.

As played, I'm not folding. But I assume he had a bigger set, that is why your asking?

I don't play multi cards but surely he just always has TT/AA here.

Ok Not a big level just really wanted to know if people are shuving or calling here.
I have no stats on Villan as I dont play Omaha very much any more.

I called and the river card was

** Dealing River ** [ Jh ] - which changed nothing
z3r0 goes all-in
z3r0 bets [$46.44]

Now do I make a crying call here???

No, he has AA pretty much always. If you had a reason to suspect that he could have a lot of different hands here then you should have shoved the turn, but in the absence of that all we have to go on are his actions in this hand and the assumption that he's not very good and so plays straight forward.

Therefore he has AA here the vast majority of the time. You are going to have the best hand way less than the 21.25% of the time that you need to make this a call getting 3.7 to 1 on the river imo.

Fold pre
Raise flop
Shove turn
F**k knows what if you manage to get to the river with chips left.

Butchered

Yes I know

thats why I am posting it.

Chris I know you didn't want to discuss it but I think the key thing is the call pre.

Do you not want to discuss because you think its profitable or view the call as a mistake?

I just wanted to discuss the hand post flop.

At this level I find players can get very stuborn with a strong pre flop hand even when they miss the flop totally.
therefore when my junk connects I can get paid.

That said I am struggling with Omaha and playing around with stratagies.

Interesting conclusion to the hand which I will post now

***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 719808613 *****
PL $0.50/$1 Omaha - Monday, June 21, 16:46:38 GMT 2010
Table Upper Rhine 07 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of active players : 5
Seat 1: Hitandrun ( $161.57 )
Seat 2: TrentBoyett ( $50 )
Seat 3: man21 ( $99 )
Seat 4: famagusta 9 ( $153.84 )
Seat 5: Megiddo ( $89.88 )
Seat 6: z3r0 ( $131.55 )
man21 posts small blind [$0.50]
famagusta 9 posts big blind [$1]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hitandrun [ 6s, Jd, 6c, Kc ]
Megiddo folds
z3r0 raises to [$3.50]
Hitandrun calls [$3.50]
man21 folds
famagusta 9 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Ts, Ac ]
z3r0 bets [$7.20]
Hitandrun calls [$7.20]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
z3r0 checks
Hitandrun bets [$17.17]
z3r0 raises to [$74.41]
Hitandrun calls [$57.24]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
z3r0 goes all-in
z3r0 bets [$46.44]
Hitandrun calls [$46.44]
** Showdown **
Hitandrun shows [ 6s, Jd, 6c, Kc ] three of a kind, Sixes
z3r0 shows [ 6h, 7c, Ah, Ks ] two pair, Aces and Sixes
** Hand Conclusion **
Hitandrun wins $261.60 from main pot with three of a kind, Sixes
************  Game 719808613 ends  ************

I really do think I butchered this hand, but conversely profited the most.

That said I should have got it all in on the turn.