blonde poker forum

APAT Scottish Championships in Aberdeen

Buyin £81

Number of Runners 127
Number of Runners remaining 13

Day two
Blind levels/Clock length  3K/6K/300 ante 40min blinds

Your stack size: 71K. Average is about 97K

Stack Sizes of relevant opposition:

Seat Two: 48K
Seat Three: around 150K

Everybody left in is guarenteed £315. 9th to 4th Gets £550. 3rd get about 1K, 2nd About 2K and the winner is 3K plus
a GUKPT seat and some extra added value in APAT league points.

Seat two is Jack Prime who has been playing very tight and getting his chips in good and picking good spots to steal from to stay in it. I have not seen him make a raise from early position up to this point. Seat three is a young player who has been playing very well quite loose and aggressive, has not been afraid to reraise to try and push some people off pots, has not been make too many loose calls though. Not that it matters in this hand but my image is pretty tight.

In this hand the rable is playing 8 handed to there are 11400 chips in the pot before the hand starts. It folds to seat two and Jack moves all-in. Seat three dwells up for quite a while. He flat calls. I feel fairly confident in putting him on something like A-K, A-Q, A-J or A-10. It is also possible he has a mid pair. I am not sure what Jack has but I think it is a real hand, like a pair, but he could have AQ or AJ also. AA and KK are also in his range but are a small part.

I look down at AK. Is this a correct shove or is it a fold? There are two players still to act.

you sure its 8 handed with 13 left?

with my stack and flat payout structure up to top few places i am going for it and jamming going for the win

Meh, tough spot...Am OK with both really and the fold might be best.

But I always shove :)

Get it in, you are ahead of both of their ranges and there isn't really any ICM concerns here with a top heavy structure (APAT events have top heavy structures right?).

Fire the TD I reckon ;)

I jam this. If the UTG guy is a proper nit then we're only marginally ahead of his range. We're not crushing against the caller either but there is still a side pot aswell between you and the caller which still leaves you with ~50k if you lose to the shover but beat the caller

7 handed. I was running the thing lol

True, it could not have been 8 handed with 13 left. The situation is pretty much the same though. I have about 25K more than the original raisers shove. So IF my read on the player who made the call is correct and he has a worse ace then there is still a 50k sidepot. But it does mean that the original raiser is a bit further ahead of me as he is likely to have a pair and the first caller has one of my outs. If you look at it from a pure chip EV point of view it is an obvious shove is there any other way to look at it in this situation. Boldie, why might the fold be best, is it because I can find a better situation?

It it better to be the first one in with ATC than to (basically) call off my chips with AK and no fold equity. Does the answer change if the original raiser haqs more chips than me and I can therefore not create a sidepot?

Oh and fwiw the payout structure is actually as good as it can be, although I would prefer we play down to the money on day one, but thats just me, not everybody agrees which is cool. The added value is what makes it top heavy but these tournaments can really only offer the one GUKPT seat and the rankings system also makes things more interesting. Yes, its top heavy but the events are still great. If anybody happens to read this thread and is thinking of going to one I would really suggest you do.

It's because I can't do the math on whether it's a profitable play or not. ;) Quite a few people would indeed say "I'd rather be in first with ATC", I don't subscribe, as someone else said "The pay out structure is very flat might as well go for the win"

In ANY other tourney this is high 5 snap jam.

But in an apat tourney your probably up against aces and kings

Seriously tho, don't fold.

I think this is defo a jam due to the payout structure of APAT tourneys.
I would struggle to fold it in a normal tourney to be honest with the size of my stack.

FYP :)

Do they really play that nitty? Never played one myself

No, but fairly close..

This is pretty accurate actually, although the caller was a good player but I suspect had not played much live poker due to his age (he said he was only 18) and the fact it was pretty easy to tell he did not have a huge hand during this hand. I did shove and the original raiser had ten and the caller AQ. The tens held up but I took the side pot. I think I played the hand OK but some people originally seemed to think it was a bit loose to effectivelt call for all your stack with AK here. People generally seem to think the shove is OK though.

If the original raiser has me covered though and the caller also has me covered does this then become a fold or is the price too good assuming I am trying to win ther tournament rather than ladder (which I always will be).

fwiw - I probably would have folded the AK if the caller had shoved rather than called, this might also be a leak.

ya its a jam and not even close. we need all da chips in this one

If you dont have a stack though you have a small pile.

meh this is irrelevant especially with stack sizes, cos he isn't going to fold to many shoves over the top anyway. In fact in some spots, the flat call can be scarier than the shove to isolate

It's relevant due to the way the tournaments play. AA or KK is a large part of the re-shoving range. He is less likely to flat with it. I understand what you mean though and flatting would not be a bad play, however I really put him on a worse ace. This means that even if the original raiser has a pair and I miss I am still in the tournament and only loose about 20K on the hand and can still come back.

This may well be flawed thinking which is the whole point of me making the thread. I guess that you think that even if it is for all of my chips I still call?

playing any hand at this stage in this spot is for all your chips

Seat 2 must push fairly wide here because he has a paltry 48k and at 11k per short-handed round he's dust if he doesn't. At this stage his tight image affords him decent FE. With only 70k yourself, a pretty flat payout structure, villain 1 pushing wide, and figuring villain 2 is crushed this is an easy jam imo.

Very nice presentation btw.

I was watching this hand


Jack is a solid tight player. He has though got into pushing mode the last few orbits.

The flat caller, the 18yo eventual winner, has a big stack.

You've got to think AK is ahead of him, so at worst you've got a favourites chance for the sidepot which is pushable/playable if need be

and a chance to scoop the lot against Jack..racing most likely or maybe ahead there too


I thought it was a clear push by you Steve/Rod



btw Rod, Jack has pushed and Scott is dwelling with his AQ. You could not have looked more excited if I had paraded Kelly Brook in front of you with her saying "take me now big boy"

Fortunately for you Scott did not look over at you, but if he had he'd have passed I think 


Just something to bear in mind for next time. Look at your cards when the action gets to you not before if you have to.

Do you want to test that Kelly Brook theory at some time :-)

Until you said this I had not thought about it - The way I looked during the hand I mean (not Kelly Brook). Lesson learnt then, I am still fairly new to live poker, had not really played a serious live tournament before Janurary this year (just some crapshoot at local casino / snooker clubs) so having to learn quite a lot of them :-)

Hope I am getting there though.

Ah, the Kelly Brook Paradox.

If she had been in the general vicinity of the Nash saying 'take me now big boy', I wouldn't have pushed in the first place. Least, not in Steve's direction.

Surely seat 2 even from your description has to be jamming a range which we are considerably ahead of and the flat call just gives us a greater incentive to jam?

What are you reasons for considering not getting it in?  Even if someone has a pair and one of your ace or kings is gone the price you are getting is way too good to pass up?

This seems like a spot where Im really pretty happt to be getting it in when you state the f range as AQ-AT.

I think the fact the price is way too good to pass up is the key point. After I put the caller in a good ace I have to put the allin on a pair of some sort. The fact that a side pot (of about 50K) would be created made it a reasonably easy push I suppose and if I win the hand I have almost 200K in chips. I am also very interested to know if the answer changes if the original raiser has more chips than me? Reading this thread and looking at the maths it is still a clear call? A couple of very good players have suggested to me this is a fold if there is no side pot?

Thought you'd lost weight?

I'd like to argue it would be for other reasons but it would be an out and out lie.