blonde poker forum

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUvo5OHH6o8

Have been discussing this with a few people and it certainly divides opinion.  Some have criticised it for being in bad taste and disrespectful of those who died at Auschwitz, whilst others look at it as a celebration that there were survivors who came through the evil, and that this one survivor is now part of a family spanning three generations.

Crass beyond words. Wp on them being Auschwitz survivors, doesn't mean they're not total idiots though.

Incredibly bad taste. Check out the Aushwitz mass grave pits, then replay the vid.

They're forgetting the horror and depravity of the actual event. It's not even funny. At least if it was funny it would allow people to cope with the fact that some of your fellow human beings are monsters.

Dunno about this stuff really. What strikes me is the number of non Jewish people who died in WW2 that never really get mentioned. I don't understand why people get upset about this subject, things just as bad have happened elsewhere throughout history and once again they get forgotten about.

Yeah, plenty bad stuff done since then, only now uncovering mass graves in the Former Yugoslavia.

The Holocaust was on such a scale though, and 'good people' didn't do enough to help/intervene, the least we can do now is remember them in a respectful way. So vid is an epic fail. Bet the far right jew-haters love this vid to bits.

Plenty of non-Jewish poles and others died there too. That's my grandad's family. [ ] I will go out and make some ridiculous pop dance vid on the site of the atrocity as a fitting tribute to them.

(http://img.humzoo.com/betsyradish/view/betsyradish_0_77.jpg)

tbh there's very little in history that was on the same scale - and hardly any of it get's forgotten about; this was just in living memory and has documented evidence - that's the main reason why it's in the forefront of the world consciousness.

Yep, definately a celebration.

The key for me is in the intentions of the makers of the video. They are not setting out to use this subject matter simply to 'shock' or cause outrage, their motives are pure.

The juxtaposition of this subject and a 'fun' video are not incompatible. I can understand why the survivor was happy to participate, and I can understand why his grandchildren were happy to do it too. Who are we to be morally outraged?

Well done them.

Mr Fox says it perfectly IMO. Intent is everything here.

When I was watching it I got that warm fuzzy feeling in me belly - pure delight for that man.  He survived and has been able to watch his family grow.  What's not to celebrate about that?

Pretty sure that people who aren't Holocaust survivors can't have a go at the way a Holocaust survivor chooses to celebrate their survival and remember those who died.

Some stuff here that might interest you.

http://www.grthm.co.uk/holocaust-launch-videos.php

2nd vid down is of an address that I first I gave at Derby Cathedral on holocaust memorial day. I was asked to repeat it here for the Holocaust against the Roma and Sinti Exhibition in London.

The sound quality is poor and there has been some editing, but you can click the link below for a full transcript.

http://www.grthm.co.uk/bigger-picture-porrajmos.php

Was in a car crash with my mate, he was killed instantly, but I miraculously survived. Went to the funeral, managed to wrestle his body out of the open casket, and danced a little jig with him to 'Who let the dog's out?' while his family looked on in horror, bawling their eyes out. Don't know what got into them, it was his favourite tune, I had survived the accident against the odds and was celebrating this. His father was clearly upset but I explained to him that my intentions were pure, but he still punched me in the nose. Some people are on such a downer and need to cheer the f*** up.

I missed the bit in the video where they did they jitterbug with a skeleton during a rememberance service attended by families of the dead.

Silly boy.

Your descripton of the video and its makers as 'crass' and 'idiots', is far more accurately held about this post and you.

TBH, I'd probably laugh at that too...mainly because the jitterbug is a fun song :)

Actually I was making an analogy not a direct reference, if you look closely you'll see a bit in the youtube vid where they're pulling happy faces in a train used to pull the bodies of his (not so lucky) brethren to their horrific deaths followed by some ridiculous little dance outside the gates inside which millions of others died slowly and painfully.
Think 'taste', 'appropriateness', 'respectfulness' and 'dignity' and you'll be halfway to seeing what might be wrong with this vid beyond the initial appearance.
[] Me not having escaped the death camp like he did precludes me from commenting on the ridiculousness of his actions. [ ] Being a survivor of Auschwitz allows you to treat the feelings of the relatives of those who didn't with insensitivity.

Please refrain from personal insults and attacks.  Ad hominem attacks like this don't add to the debate - argue against the argument, not the person.

Agree with this.  He's hardly saying 'in your eye' to the people that didn't survive, just celebrating the miracle that he did.

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

I think you're being WAY too sensitive - I saw it more as a get it up you to the people that tried to wipe them out in that & other camps. They tried to kill the old boy & he's now celebrating his and his descendants' very existance.

They weren't dancing on others' graves FFS they were celebrating a small victory - as every survivor from those camps is a victory, and in the end, if people don't like it, thankfully they can't kill them for it.

IF they then posted the video to the relatives of some that didn't survive, then OK your argument about taste etc comes into play. They didn't though & instead the press have pressed the 'insult' button.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

They've posted a controversial video on Youtube, I'm sure plenty of relatives of non-survivors will see it?


What is the Auschwitz camp now, what is it there for? Why hasn't it been knocked down and replaced? (serious question)

More recently there was Cambodia in the 70s and Rwanda in the 90s where the genocide saw more than a million murdered (not sure on the figures).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/melbourne-familys-dance-video-spark-auschwitz-outrage/story-e6frf7jo-1225891329631


"Jewish Holocaust Centre education director Zvi Civins said the video was inappropriate."I feel the best expression of survival and the fact that Jews have survived is to educate people about what happened," he said.

"Auschwitz is the site of over a million deaths and if dance is the best way to express the vitality of the Jewish people despite the holocaust perhaps a better location could have been chosen," he said. "As an educator I think Auschwitz needs to be seen through different lenses than that video clip has the potential of portraying.""

+1

Tough call imo, while I can see that the message of "You could not detroy me, look at my legacy" is one that needs saying, the choice of venue(s) were misiguided. Mourn at those places for the many lost lives, but celebrate your survival away from them.

They're probably the 2 closest and in terms of percentage of the population it could be argued that they're comparable, but just the Jewish loss to the Nazi's was at least triple the number - and the Jewish loss was only about half (? I think) the total, so in terms of numbers it's also arguable that they're not comparable.

LOL, I think any situation your above a Million dead through scenarios like these the argument for who has most is pretty irrelevant tbh..............

Fair enough, but I still don't accept that as a reason why holocaust stories hit the press week in week out to the exclusion of pretty much any other stories of mass murder, many of which are more recent that I alluded to before.

Random story of the day. Met this lady in Cambodia her name is Mrs Deeaw. During the Khmer Rouge years she was married with young two children, her whole family was beaten to death in front of her, they beat them to death because they did not want to waste bullets on them. The only reason she survived was because she was an attractive young lady, the soldiers wanted to keep her to rape for a few weeks. She eventually managed to escape and blend into working the fields some distance away and remained undetected, she would otherwise no doubt be dead now.

A few years later she remarried and had another child with her current husband. She say that she tries not to think about those days and and her daily existence is so difficult she does not really get chance anyway. Pretty sad story really, its these types of stories that I've come across a few times on my travels that irritates me a bit when they get pushed aside because the holocaust is the 'headline' story.

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/Andr4w/cambo.jpg)

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/Andr4w/Cambodia%202009/8.jpg)

Great post.

Isn't it similar to the way the public's focus and media reports concentrate on the deaths of British troops in say Afghanistan - rather than the deaths of those from other countries - most noticeably, Afghanistan? 

Not really, we live in England not Israel..............

The Jews who were being murdered during WWII were from Germany and Poland (and other countries).  It was a war that Britain was immersed in, and so is obviously central to our modern history.  The war against Germany was taking place in Europe, here in the UK.

You mentioned the genocide in Cambodia - as it's a place you've been.  Therefore it quite rightly is at the centre of your conciousness. However, the genocide in Rwanda is probably far less so.  I studied Japan and Japanese at uni, and lived there for a while.  The atrocities carried out by the Japanese in China and elsewhere, and the (in my opinion, unnecessary) hundreds of thousands killed by the atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are probably more relevant to me than to many others in the UK and the rest of Europe. 

Surely that's the reason the holocaust is spoken about more and remembered more across Europe than the killing fields of Cambodia?  I don't think it's due to Jewish communities forcing it to the forefront of any agenda.

I've seen it in a few places including South Africa, Zimbawbe, Namibia and Cambo. OK maybe not technically genocide in all those places but the same murdering shit and I don't separate them tbh. I do think it is in part down to the presence of high profile Jewish figures in the west, I know you don't agree but hey ho, can't agree about everything. I'm not saying the holocaust isn't deserving of attention, it obv is, but gets too much at the cost of others imo. Peace out..........

[ ] discussions in which the Holocaust is compared to other genocides end well.

LOL, its amazing how tilted up people get about it tbh...........

I talk BS on a couple of other non gambling forums. The one subject that seem to tilt the life out of people more than any other is Tattoo's, its just like marmite innit...........

There isn't technically a limited amount of attention that one issue can have, even if the holocaust gets greater coverage only because of high profile Jewish figures in the West - so what?

If it didn't receive that coverage, it wouldn't mean more coverage for those other issues, it would just mean that the Holocaust was ignored just as much as the other genocides  - that wouldn't be better, would it?

Fk knows mate, I'm done here now anyway...........

They will now the offended masses are on the case, doubt many would have if it hadn't been made so public.

Does the holocaust get the same attention the genocide carried out by Pol Pot gets in say...Thailand?  Is the bombing of Dresden high on the main events of WWII to the Japanese?  Do the people of many other nations know much (or anything) about the Falklands War (other than the Brits and the Argies)?  We hear about the war in Afghanistan fairly frequently in the UK (in the media and therefore it's at the front of the public's perception), but we hear less about the war raging in Sudan.

I don't think it needs people in 'high-profile' positions to make events that took place closer to home (or involved one's own country) higher on the public's consciousness than those that took place further afield.

We just ain't going to agree sorry, I'm quitting now before we both end up like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjDy8fYJcuw

Fair enough - just don't see any evidence to support the conspiracy theory.

(at least the thread hasn't invoked Godwin's Law - even though it's actually relevant to the subject matter :D)

There are actually 3 parts to the video.  Here's part 3 where Adolk (the survivor) is interviewed a bit more:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpfID7pLe7M

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YzVoR6Zvzk'