blonde poker forum

2 tables are left, 5 are paid

280,000 in play

average is 18,000

blinds are 300-600/50

UTG limper 19,000. Complete loose cannon (USA Dennis to those who know Luton). Impossible to put on a range here beyond the top 75% of hands

Hero 16,000 completes in the sb with  6d 4h. I know this is a leak in general, but the aim is to hit a flop four-square and get paid by the calling station limper

Big Blind 40,000 checks option. (Xpressman) Solid, playing confidently. Stabbing at lots of pots in the last 30 minutes both pre and post.


flop  5d 4d 3h

Could be better, could be worse

I check, I am happy with a free card. I might make a move on one opponent if action

Big blind leads for 1200. UTG calls quickly

back on you


Is there a case to check-raise here against two opponents? The read is the big blind will fold a lot of his leading range, the UTG though may call very light

Call and play the hand out of position..check folding the turn to action?

Fold now?


What is your preferred option?

 

Never folding this at this point given the action.

At first I wanted to raise, but thinking about it I prefer the flat and have a look at the turnski.

Couldn't be better, not much worse you mean!

Tighty if you are completing with these hands this is heaven! - am raising to commit here and have no problem getting it in.

This.

Looking at the turn is no good as any card that completes your straight also kills your action.

Get them in.

Oh and pre flop making up with 6-4 is not a leak IMO...with K 5 it would be.

Completing with 64o is just about ok I think.

I'd be tempted to lead the flop. You may well get raised if they think you're just taking a stab and you can then push over that raise.

As played though I think I flat call. We might struggle for action if we hit our straight, but we're just about getting immediate pot odds to draw to it.

Agree with Guy 100%. Short of 666 this flop is absolute heaven.

Ship the lot in now or make it a committing raise to about 7k with the intention of jamming any turn.

There's no point whatsoever in calling to see what develops. Any card that improves your hand completely kills your action even against a station.

Just ship now and either take the pot down or win what is likely 50 50 minimum.

i think completing is a leak with your stack size here.

I'd probably just check raise/jam the flop as played to save hard decisions OOP 3way on further streets

Calling with 64o isn't a massive leak if you know how to make the most of it when you hit.

If you call and then manage to get nothing more out of it when you hit this flop then it's bad and you should stick to folding in future.

As luck would have it your oppos have gifted you a few nice easy chips so just take 'em now.

Actually I've changed my mind. I like a shove more. I think it has a good chance of getting through and we add ~5k to our ~14k stack. If we get called then we have a pair and oesd innit.

what he said

what do you hope for when flatting here against 2 oppos? That you'll hit your straight and then get no action? That an overcard comes and you can sigh fold?

I reckon a flat is worse than folding here IMO.

I think completing is fine with this hand and after doing so and hitting the flop dont mind leading with intention of shipping to a r/r or c/r as the action has played out with a committing raise

Saves me posting the same.

You're very rarely going to be hitting the flop any harder than that - so what were you planning on doing on such a flop when you called pre?

I also don't see the point of flatting now, surely you want to be shoving here to take the pot or get a caller when you know you're very unlikely to be a huge dog.

I much prefer leading the flop and shoving over a raise.  As played I don't think we're going to be able to raise enough to get rid of both players, but folding just feels too weak when we've hit the flop so massively.

LOL you bunch of live fish.

completing 64o here is a leak.

(http://www.cookeryonline.com/mealexperience/Site01/Images/cheque.jpg)

(http://logopolis.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cba3953ef01156f254b92970c-800wi)

I don't want to get rid of both players...I want them both in so I can treble up :)

Like.

If we ship and get called we should be a lot worse than 50/50 a good percentage of the time imo

Agree complete is a leak. Too shallow vs one loose cannon villain and one confident villain who bets a lot of flops. I like the c-jam line now because anything else seems a bit complicated and messy.

*tries to change mind so it's the optimal play*

Just can't, sigh.

is it really that big of a deal?

Quoted for evidence.

Completing here is fine as long as you're taking some stabs yourself and you're not just hoping to flop the nuts.

I think that bet/shove and check/raise are both viable lines. I really don't like jamming 15k over a bet and call of 1200. This pretty much turns your hand face up imo.

I make it 5k and jam any turn.

Does it matter?

I would have thought that if either of the other 2 players has a hand that they'd call with when they 'know' what your hand is; then it would be a hand that they'd call with if they don't 'know' it.

I'd check raise all in with aim of winning the pot, with a backup of hoping to hold if they were the types to call with overcards, and with the draw if they already had a stronger hand than you.

The bb is tagged as a confident player who is taking stabs at pots both pre and post. People who advocate the call thus far are assuming we are always seeing a flop. UTG has a very wide range and hero's range is polarised as medium/weak hands. Seems a good spot for bb villain with 2x the chips to be cranking it up.

btw, it's nice to see Greekstein showing signs of improvement.

FYP

FYFYP

Of course it matters. Jamming here pretty much takes all sets and straights out of your range, possibly 2 pair hands aswell. Your range is now massively weighted towards hands like the one that you have, plus some decent draws, looks a lot like diamonds with overs aswell.

It means that you should get snapcalled by hands like small overpairs that were limped pre and 5x hands that have good equity against us. The whole point of check/shoving is that it folds out some weaker made hands that have decent equity against us. Shoving here doesn't accomplish that against a thinking player.

Now of course you could argue that most of the regulars in this tournament aren't thinking on that level and will happily pass their A5 because they can 'find a better spot' or whatever. You'd almost certainly be right and so I'd agree that shoving here is fine, but while it might not matter much in this situation against this field, against tougher players this move isn't going to be as effective imo.

FYFYFYP

FYFYFYFYP

That was pretty much what I meant, obviously it comes down to people reading.

I think there's a difference between what can be correct in theory, and what can be correct in practice - because, like with all game theory, the absolutely technically correct way of playing assumes your opponents will play absolutely technically correct - and in practice; they don't and they won't.

Anyway I passed (I know, I know)

which is why I posted this, I'm a lemon in these spots

BB had x5, UTG A7

Check-raise was almost certainly getting through.

Well you know what you've done wrong so there's no real need to say it.

In future fold these sort of hands pre. If you're prepared to make a move when you hit this flop then you can almost justify a peel pre but otherwise just don't do it.

you absolute nits, only reason not to complete pre is if you suck hard postflop, live we get sooooooo much more info. tighty, we have RIDICULOUS equity against almost any range under the sun, passing here is pretty criminal and if we are only completing to flop 2pair+ then yer we should be folding pre..................

i thought this thread would be more about this

edit, can't get image to work.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/f/pissbottle.jpg/)