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Community Forums => The Lounge => Topic started by: Woodsey on August 10, 2010, 10:51:08 PM



Title: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 10, 2010, 10:51:08 PM
WTFFFFFFFFFFFF??????????? Not seen this before


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tf1r4/Madness_in_the_Fast_Lane/


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Girgy85 on August 10, 2010, 11:24:09 PM
Here.....

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6agXn3fVnRs


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 10, 2010, 11:25:55 PM
Pretty sick, deffo worth a watch on I-player when available. Fairly strong stomach required...........


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: TightPaulFolds on August 10, 2010, 11:29:52 PM
Transient 'Folie a deux'. MBN trying to prove that in court lol


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: MPOWER on August 10, 2010, 11:31:50 PM
Just a mad programme and upsetting really.


Regards

M

 


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Amatay on August 10, 2010, 11:39:19 PM
that was a bit fked up


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: GreekStein on August 10, 2010, 11:45:29 PM
Pretty sick, deffo worth a watch on I-player when available. Fairly strong stomach required...........

cliffs pls someone


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 10, 2010, 11:49:12 PM
Pretty sick, deffo worth a watch on I-player when available. Fairly strong stomach required...........

cliffs pls someone

I honestly think its something you have to watch for shock value, so I won't tell you...........


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: GreekStein on August 10, 2010, 11:51:03 PM
Pretty sick, deffo worth a watch on I-player when available. Fairly strong stomach required...........

cliffs pls someone

I honestly think its something you have to watch for shock value, so I won't tell you...........

I don't watch TV. I play poker.

Pray do tell


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 10, 2010, 11:56:14 PM
Pretty sick, deffo worth a watch on I-player when available. Fairly strong stomach required...........

cliffs pls someone

I honestly think its something you have to watch for shock value, so I won't tell you...........

I don't watch TV. I play poker.

Pray do tell

It will be quicker to watch that clip Girgy has posted than for me to explain here...........


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 10, 2010, 11:57:25 PM
why did I just watch that


wtf


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: mondatoo on August 10, 2010, 11:58:03 PM
What's the programme called ?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 11, 2010, 12:01:17 AM
What's the programme called ?

Madness in the fast lane


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 11, 2010, 12:03:34 AM
What's the programme called ?

Madness in the fast lane

was the ytbue a clip? if so cliffs on rest of program? wtf?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 11, 2010, 12:05:14 AM
What's the programme called ?

Madness in the fast lane

was the ytbue a clip? if so cliffs on rest of program? wtf?

LOL no too complicated and would take too long watch it on I-player when its up............


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: mondatoo on August 11, 2010, 12:09:24 AM
It's up, will watch


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: StuartHopkin on August 11, 2010, 12:13:35 AM
Only watched the YouTube clip but the whole thing doesnt add up?

Is it just me?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 11, 2010, 12:16:04 AM
Only watched the YouTube clip but the whole thing doesnt add up?

Is it just me?

Doesn't really make sense tbh no proper reasoning behind it, but pretty sick nonetheless...........

Link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tf1r4/Madness_in_the_Fast_Lane/


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 11, 2010, 12:24:07 AM
woodsey i'm going to say again wtf am I watching.

this is horrific.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 11, 2010, 12:26:36 AM
woodsey i'm going to say again wtf am I watching.

this is horrific.

LOL its not like I didn't foooking warn you :D


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 11, 2010, 12:34:22 AM
this isn't gory horrific, it's just awfully horrific. so ridic.

14 mins in. it's just ridic.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: AndrewT on August 11, 2010, 12:52:30 AM
Things I watch featuring blonde Swedish twins are generally less bleak than this.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: mondatoo on August 11, 2010, 12:59:48 AM
Never been baffled so many times,maddest thing I've ever seen,insane.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 11, 2010, 01:10:07 AM
say wut


just finished, ruined my poker/call of duty session.



am confused.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Sack it off on August 11, 2010, 01:28:54 AM
WTF @ them saying that shes low risk to the public and allowing her the benefit of the doubt


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 11, 2010, 01:30:33 AM
the doctors at the police station should have access to the video of the motorway antics.


I repeat. wtf


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 11, 2010, 01:31:24 AM
The whole thing is WTF from start to finish...........


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ViiperUK on August 11, 2010, 01:32:54 AM
mid watching now... seriosuly WTF


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Rupert on August 11, 2010, 03:19:26 AM
WTFFFFFFFFFFF

anyone got any guesses as to what the fuck they were up to at any point??  starting with flying to liverpool???


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Josedinho on August 11, 2010, 10:12:27 AM
Is the Iplayer not working for this for anybody else?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ACE2M on August 11, 2010, 06:17:03 PM
i got held up in the jam when she jumped off that bridge.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Graham C on August 11, 2010, 06:21:11 PM
Bridge?  There's more to it than that youtube link?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: cia260895 on August 11, 2010, 06:40:47 PM
buggered up my dreams of blonde swedish twins

but truely jaw dropping programe   ;gobsmacked; ;gobsmacked; ;gobsmacked;,

cant believe she dint get hit by another car when she jumped from the bridge, 2 broken ankles and fractured skull=result



Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 11, 2010, 06:46:17 PM
Bridge?  There's more to it than that youtube link?


the clip is the initial wtf incident of running into trafffic on motorway to basically die.

then surviving and trying two more times

one has legs crushed under lorry , bottom half ruined, top half trying to drag herself away still and fight back. v crazy.


one is released from hosp and 2 days later or something she stabs a guy to death


then theres the bridge jump and I think that's most of the cliffs.

watching it is about a mirrion times more horrific than it sounds.



just wtf, watching the 18 wheeler run her over is just wow


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ViiperUK on August 12, 2010, 03:44:29 PM
Bridge?  There's more to it than that youtube link?


the clip is the initial wtf incident of running into trafffic on motorway to basically die.

then surviving and trying two more times

one has legs crushed under lorry , bottom half ruined, top half trying to drag herself away still and fight back. v crazy.


one is released from hosp and 2 days later or something she stabs a guy to death
(Only gets charged of manslaughter and then some guy explains some mental disorders as to why they done this.)


then theres the bridge jump and I think that's most of the cliffs.

watching it is about a mirrion times more horrific than it sounds.



just wtf, watching the 18 wheeler run her over is just wow


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ViiperUK on August 12, 2010, 03:45:15 PM
oh and the windscreen and roof of the car that smacked the one that got back up? omfg! lol proper destroyed the front of the car only to get back up and hook the copper


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: pleno1 on August 12, 2010, 04:44:46 PM
wtffff


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: chezzboy on August 12, 2010, 04:56:42 PM
I remember the original programme a year or two ago, fuckin wierd  ;dingdell;


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 12, 2010, 05:08:26 PM
wtffff

I was telling people about this and all I could think was this




WUUUUUT DAA FUUUUUUKKKKKKINNGNGNGNGN FKKKKKKK


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Claw75 on August 12, 2010, 05:42:46 PM
just watched the whole thing - incredibly puzzling.  Hope for the sake of the guy's family/other's involved that one of them actually speaks up at some point about what they were up to and what was going on.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Alverton on August 12, 2010, 05:56:33 PM
wtf!!


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Bongo on August 12, 2010, 05:58:13 PM
just watched the whole thing - incredibly puzzling.  Hope for the sake of the guy's family/other's involved that one of them actually speaks up at some point about what they were up to and what was going on.

It sounds like they wouldn't actually know!


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: DaveShoelace on August 12, 2010, 10:12:27 PM
Just watched it,all I can say is.....

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q41LuahgZZo


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Teacake on August 12, 2010, 11:24:15 PM
That's one of the most bizarre things I think I have ever seen. WTF just doesn't begin to cover it!!!!


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 13, 2010, 12:19:56 AM
That's one of the most bizarre things I think I have ever seen. WTF just doesn't begin to cover it!!!!


that's why you have to keep repeating it.


wtf


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ViiperUK on August 13, 2010, 01:50:47 AM
That's one of the most bizarre things I think I have ever seen. WTF just doesn't begin to cover it!!!!


that's why you have to keep repeating it.


wtf

wtf


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: geordieneil on August 13, 2010, 06:27:16 AM
      how the fk can the police release her after the motorway incident, fk me she jumps in front of 3 vehicles and they think she's sane?????   i mean some guys dead because of more red tape police stupidity.

    for the 50th time in this thread

    WTF


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ViiperUK on August 13, 2010, 12:11:45 PM
      how the fk can the police release her after the motorway incident, fk me she jumps in front of 3 vehicles and they think she's sane?????   i mean some guys dead because of more red tape police stupidity.

    for the 50th time in this thread

    WTF

This is exactly what got me as much

and i'll add another in

WTF


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: mondatoo on August 13, 2010, 12:12:52 PM
      how the fk can the police release her after the motorway incident, fk me she jumps in front of 3 vehicles and they think she's sane?????   i mean some guys dead because of more red tape police stupidity.

    for the 50th time in this thread

    WTF

This is one of the many insane things in this what got me as much

and i'll add another in

WTF


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: TightPaulFolds on August 14, 2010, 05:42:48 PM
     how the fk can the police release her after the motorway incident, fk me she jumps in front of 3 vehicles and they think she's sane?????   i mean some guys dead because of more red tape police stupidity.

    for the 50th time in this thread

    WTF

Both tried to throw themselves repeatedly into traffic. Clearly sane. WP coppers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tf1r4/b00tf1qs/Madness_in_the_Fast_Lane/

18:00 minutes in. "Have you ever tried to harm yourself? Clearly this wasn't a good idea was it? Motorway incident...let's put that aside" lolwtf

"She just appeared to be a bit odd. But being a bit odd isn't a crime."  This should have gone to IPCC wtf


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Royal Flush on August 14, 2010, 05:53:40 PM
Are you really that silly?

Do you think it's the policeman's job to make an assessment on her mental state or do you think maybe they have someone else to do that?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: TightPaulFolds on August 14, 2010, 06:08:27 PM
Are you really that silly?

Do you think it's the policeman's job to make an assessment on her mental state or do you think maybe they have someone else to do that?

Let me fill you in cos you seem to have lost your way a bit. The police have the responsibility to perform an initial assessment on her mental state. If you watch your local bobbies out and about and even down the nick you'll see that even though they deal with lots of people doing crazy things, they don't have a mental health services professional standing beside them all the time to perform insta-diagnoses. It is therefore the job of the cops to perform an assessment (based on their perceived mental state)  of whether a health professional needs to be called in or not. They perform an initial screening. You notice in the video that the cop asks her if she is a risk to herself or others. This is part of his assessment. They also know that she tried several times to throw herself into traffic. This fact should have been part of the assessment that would have led the police to call in a professional to perform the diagnosis. It appears to have been ignored and therefore it looks like no one was called in. You get it now?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: TightPaulFolds on August 14, 2010, 06:25:09 PM
Section 136, Mental Health Act

Mentally Disordered Persons found in Public Places
The Mental Health Act states:
"136 - (1) If a constable finds, in a place to which the public have access, a person
who appears to him to be suffering from mental disorder and to be in immediate
need of care or control, the constable may, if he thinks it necessary to do so in the
interests of that person or for the protection of other persons, remove that person to
a place of safety within the meaning of Section 135....…
136 - (2) A person removed to a place of safety under this section may be detained
there for a period not exceeding 72 hours for the purpose of enabling him to be
examined by a Registered Medical Practitioner and to be interviewed by an
Approved Social Worker and of making necessary arrangement for his treatment or
care".


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: vegaslover on August 14, 2010, 09:18:06 PM
I only saw about 5 mins of this while at work the other night, but wasn't he asking these Qs at the station?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: TightPaulFolds on August 14, 2010, 10:47:39 PM
I only saw about 5 mins of this while at work the other night, but wasn't he asking these Qs at the station?

Looked like it yes, why?


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: geordieneil on August 14, 2010, 10:55:52 PM
i think throwing yourself under speeding traffic once is enough to be sectioned.....3 times, they should of thrown away the key to the padded cell.

   some pour chap is dead, and the police have to take responsibility for this, allowing this woman free was absolutely ridiculous


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: sofa----king on August 15, 2010, 01:34:26 AM
the strangest thing ive ever.,.,ever seen in my life.,.,.












i woulda sh463d the two of them..,.,.,.,.then they really woulda been mental.,.,.,


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: vegaslover on August 15, 2010, 03:41:38 PM
I only saw about 5 mins of this while at work the other night, but wasn't he asking these Qs at the station?

Looked like it yes, why?
Can't use 136 at the Police station. From here on in it is up to the duty Psych to assess.
FWIW you can't detain somebody for being odd. If they show capacity you certainly can't detain, then up to Police to decide if their actions determined being held.
And padded cells haven't been used for years.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: TightPaulFolds on August 15, 2010, 04:20:44 PM
I only saw about 5 mins of this while at work the other night, but wasn't he asking these Qs at the station?

Looked like it yes, why?

Can't use 136 at the Police station.


136 IS used at Police Stations.
Mental Health Act:

136 - (2) A person removed to a place of safety under this section may be detained
there for a period not exceeding 72 hours for the purpose of enabling him to be
examined by a Registered Medical Practitioner and to be interviewed by an
Approved Social Worker and of making necessary arrangement for his treatment or
care".

--------------
She had already been removed from a public place by the poice and was now at the police station (and could have been put in a police cell) deemed a 'place of safety under the Act. All they need to do is fill in the Section 136 paperwork at the station. At that stage, with her at the station, and under 136.2 they proceed to have her examined by the health professionals, but it looks like they just didn't bother.

Quote
FWIW you can't detain somebody for being odd. If they show capacity you certainly can't detain, then up to Police to decide if their actions determined being held.
And padded cells haven't been used for years.

The constable can and should detain someone "who appears to him to be suffering from mental disorder and to be in immediate need of care or control". She had just deliberately jumped out in front of a car. This fits the detention criteria pretty well.
You can't detain somebody just for being odd, correct. The fact that this statement was made by PC Plod in the video would suggest that 'just odd' was his final appraisal on her state of mind.
Yeah some people are just a bit odd, jumping out in front of cars, trying to kill themselves, stuff like that.  ::) Best just send her on her way with a cup of tea and a copy of 'Frogger'.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Woodsey on August 15, 2010, 05:23:09 PM
You guys have way too much time on your hands arguing over this BS............

(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/Andr4w/Wrong_internet.jpg)


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: ViiperUK on August 15, 2010, 10:10:08 PM
W....................................................................T...............................................................F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;iagree; :goodpost:


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Sheriff Fatman on August 16, 2010, 12:28:40 AM
Just watched it on iPlayer and feel the need to add a WTF.  Bizarrely, it seems the most appropriate way to describe it.

So many things wrong with the fact that she (a) was allowed out so quickly to kill someone (b) seems likely to be released from prison relatively soon as a 'safe' member of the public.

Fully expect to see this story resurface again in future with another tragedy of some kind.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: vegaslover on August 16, 2010, 01:08:24 AM
I only saw about 5 mins of this while at work the other night, but wasn't he asking these Qs at the station?

Looked like it yes, why?

Can't use 136 at the Police station.


136 IS used at Police Stations.
Mental Health Act:

136 - (2) A person removed to a place of safety under this section may be detained
there for a period not exceeding 72 hours for the purpose of enabling him to be
examined by a Registered Medical Practitioner and to be interviewed by an
Approved Social Worker and of making necessary arrangement for his treatment or
care".

--------------
She had already been removed from a public place by the poice and was now at the police station (and could have been put in a police cell) deemed a 'place of safety under the Act. All they need to do is fill in the Section 136 paperwork at the station. At that stage, with her at the station, and under 136.2 they proceed to have her examined by the health professionals, but it looks like they just didn't bother.

Quote
FWIW you can't detain somebody for being odd. If they show capacity you certainly can't detain, then up to Police to decide if their actions determined being held.
And padded cells haven't been used for years.

The constable can and should detain someone "who appears to him to be suffering from mental disorder and to be in immediate need of care or control". She had just deliberately jumped out in front of a car. This fits the detention criteria pretty well.
You can't detain somebody just for being odd, correct. The fact that this statement was made by PC Plod in the video would suggest that 'just odd' was his final appraisal on her state of mind.
Yeah some people are just a bit odd, jumping out in front of cars, trying to kill themselves, stuff like that.  ::) Best just send her on her way with a cup of tea and a copy of 'Frogger'.
Sigh
Trying to explain this to a layperson is a waste of time, I wont bother anymore.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Josedinho on August 16, 2010, 08:59:42 AM
finally watched this. It's just weird.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: lazaroonie on August 16, 2010, 09:22:57 AM
i wonder if they keep the blood they take for the drug tests, like they do with the cyclists ? I wouldnt be surprised for them to discover a new synthetic drug, virtually undetectable using current method, and find out she was pumped full of this stuff..


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Claw75 on August 16, 2010, 08:25:50 PM
been reading some theories on this elsewhere. surprised this one hasn't come up here yet as it's pretty obvious to me now:

Quote
Does anyone find it odd that the sisters happened to be twins? What about clones? Genetically engineered super soldiers? Aliens both wearing standard issue human suits? Who knows. Just odd that in a story already so odd, that they should happen to be twins.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 16, 2010, 08:32:02 PM
been reading some theories on this elsewhere. surprised this one hasn't come up here yet as it's pretty obvious to me now:

Quote
Does anyone find it odd that the sisters happened to be twins? What about clones? Genetically engineered super soldiers? Aliens both wearing standard issue human suits? Who knows. Just odd that in a story already so odd, that they should happen to be twins.

It'd be more odd if they weren't twins imo.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Claw75 on August 16, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
been reading some theories on this elsewhere. surprised this one hasn't come up here yet as it's pretty obvious to me now:

Quote
Does anyone find it odd that the sisters happened to be twins? What about clones? Genetically engineered super soldiers? Aliens both wearing standard issue human suits? Who knows. Just odd that in a story already so odd, that they should happen to be twins.

It'd be more odd if they weren't clones imo.

fyp. non believer!


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 16, 2010, 08:52:32 PM
been reading some theories on this elsewhere. surprised this one hasn't come up here yet as it's pretty obvious to me now:

Quote
Does anyone find it odd that the sisters happened to be twins? What about clones? Genetically engineered super soldiers? Aliens both wearing standard issue human suits? Who knows. Just odd that in a story already so odd, that they should happen to be twins.

It'd be more odd if they weren't clones imo.

fyp. non believer!


well if there was nothing off in their system to set them off something pretty specific and odd mentally/genetically must have helped them along the way. So less surprising that when 2 people are doing such specific and wtf weirdness that they are twins than two siblings with a 5 yr gap! Sry if this doesn't make sense am 9 tabling on other comp!


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Claw75 on August 16, 2010, 09:45:12 PM
been reading some theories on this elsewhere. surprised this one hasn't come up here yet as it's pretty obvious to me now:

Quote
Does anyone find it odd that the sisters happened to be twins? What about clones? Genetically engineered super soldiers? Aliens both wearing standard issue human suits? Who knows. Just odd that in a story already so odd, that they should happen to be twins.

It'd be more odd if they weren't clones imo.

fyp. non believer!


well if there was nothing off in their system to set them off something pretty specific and odd mentally/genetically must have helped them along the way. So less surprising that when 2 people are doing such specific and wtf weirdness that they are twins than two siblings with a 5 yr gap! Sry if this doesn't make sense am 9 tabling on other comp!

sigh - no it makes perfect sense, but it's not very helpful to me in my quest to spread the conspiracy theory that they are clones or aliens.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Mango99 on August 16, 2010, 09:58:46 PM
Just watched this on iplayer.

+1 to the list of WTFs.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: lazaroonie on August 16, 2010, 10:43:22 PM
Blimey, the looney fringe/conspiracy theorists have got themselves in a right old lather over this!!!!! Look, 71 pages and counting:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36973&page=65 (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36973&page=65)

DISCLAIMER: I do not go on this website, I just googled it lol


love this one
Quote

having considered all possible explainations for the 'non destructible' twin the only thing that appears rational is 'the one in the red coat' is actually from the future..........

and travelled back in time to lead her past self out of danger

Hence she was indestructible..........you cant die in this 'time' if you exist in the future

and the other twin wasn't on the documentary ...........why ?? coz she doesnt exist



Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: titaniumbean on August 16, 2010, 10:46:52 PM
rotflmfao


awesome.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: lazaroonie on August 16, 2010, 11:00:35 PM
this one might actually be my favourite

Quote
I'm thinking if there Transdimensional beings, maybe their only way of escape (especially from the Law to evade being held prisoner) is through death, hence why they were so desperate to jump into traffic.
For some reason they both simply "bounced off" the cars and lorries though, perhaps different components/atomic scales in our Dimension than theirs? so it ruined their plans.


Title: Re: BBC 1 Now!
Post by: Claw75 on August 16, 2010, 11:05:02 PM
i'm still favouring the idea that they are aliens in standard issue human suits, but may well be swayed by some arguments on that forum, which i'm off to read now