blonde poker forum

Final 3 in a tournament, I have a stack of 14k in the small blind. BB has 30k, button has 70k. Blinds are 1k/2k.

Button flat calls the 2k, I have  Qd 8h and flat call. The BB checks.

Flop comes   Jc  8c 2s. I decide to bet 8k, pretty much pot commiting myself with only 4k left behind. (or so I thought)
Big blind raises all-in, Button calls! Arghh, call or fold with the following prize structure?

3rd place £125
2nd place £210
1st place £340 + Super System 2 (which I've already got)

pass

Bit more information on it, Button didn't call immediately, took him just over a minute.
When he did, Big blind didn't look too happy about it.

Fold., Button wins with flush.

I passed, big blind showed  3c 6c, button showed  9h Ts. Big blind didn't hit and we were heads up.

I didn't make a miracle comeback with my 4k left and finished in 2nd.

Even though you're ahead, they've a lot of cards to hit.

It was hard to pass with 21/2 on my money though. It worked out, as the fold bumped me up to 2nd but I'm still not convinced I made the correct play.

I don't like the bet in itself, I think either you should move all-in or check.

I never knew you had the 8 in that hand Tank.  I think a check with middle pr first to act would have been the best play because of ur short stack and you would get some information from the bb because i was to act after him and had him coverd, hard to say, he could still have made the allin move regardless of you checking or not but at least then you have an oppertunity to get away from it if i called and save 8k in chips.

I prob wouldnt have called if i didnt think you where pot commited but the chance to knock the 2 of you out and still have a big enough stack to compete if i lost the hand made the decision in my mind.

But the way to hand unfolded i think you where right to fold rather than toss ur last few chips in and finnish 3rd, imo as a sever short stack the main objective is to hope the 2 big stacks clash and you move up the money ladder.

I agree I don't like the bet either.  Don't see the point in making a bet which commits you to the pot then not calling.  Might as well go all in or check and see what happens.

When another 8 hit the river, I thought it best to hush up that I packed the best hand.

I fully intended to stick my last 4k in chips if I was raised. I only passed because I felt strongly that Big blind ws on a draw. It was perhaps a weak fold.

The reason I made the bet, instead of the all-in play was that an all-in bet is usually percieved as one that does not want a call. I though betting 8k would show more strength, and more likely to get a drawing hand to pass. Didn't work out for me that time, think I made it against the wrong player,  the big blind going all-in over the top with 6 high flush draw as if he expects me to pass for 4k more. (ok I did, but that's not the point)

Does it show strength though tank?  Surely with your stack you want a drawing hand to call you to get a chance to double up.  And can you really see a player at CinCin's folding a draw here?  Stick them in and hope for the best.

Granted, it turned out to be a bad play, but that's why I made it at the time.


In tournaments I'd rather win the 18k every time than 30k when the draw misses. I'm rooting for a fold from a good draw in this situation. At that point, I think I had one showdown the whole final table, that's the kind of low volatility poker I like to play in tournaments.

I agree, but i had so many chips on that last hand and I totaly miss read the bb, i thought he had the jack I really couldnt put him on the flush draw when he reraised to put you allin and he had to go through me to do that so i put him on a made hand, was pretty shocked when he turn over 6 high "wow im ahead with 9 high" were the words.

I thought you hit the jack and when he came over the top for all his chips i really put him on the jack or 2pr then lost sight of you.

I didnt really understand the logic behind what he was doing.

His play was poor, there was no real logic behind his move. Don't worry too much about mis-reading him.


I don't feel to bad about betting the 8k now, I tried to represent a Jack, an all-in would have represented a draw IMHO. What would have been your move if the big blind passed Timaloy?

18k in the pot 12k to call  your allin with a open ended str draw against a possible flush draw.

I think i would pass, because if you where on a flush draw that takes away 4 of my maximum 14 outs if you didnt have the 8 or 9 of clubs with a better kicker, even less outs if you did. Plus not even 2-1 from the pot so the call isnt pretty against a made hand either and I think you are a really good player so doubling up a dangerous player like you was the last think i wanted to do.

Fold.

That logic would hold up against most good players but in Cin Cins pot odds, outs, +/ ev, previous hands etc just dont come into it.

I don't really need to tell you that though do I  ;)

Next time dont bet 2/3 of your stack unless your going to stick them all in.

Another good question Tank - it's a very complex scenario and a very close decision. 

On my rough calcs if you call and every player has a 2-1 chance of winning the hand and if you pass and the 2 bigger stacks are even money you are slightly better calling. 

The more of a dog the big stack is, the more likely it is you should call and if you are better than 2-1 against the other 2 it makes it more likely that you should call.

The odd thing is that if the cards were turned over we would see that you were better than 2-1 and the big stack was better than evens - in comparison to my guess at odds, calling increases your ev and folding increases it as well!!

I stand by my play, I was effectively putting them all-in. If one player had raised I would have called in a flash. I only passed as I read the big blind to be weak and he'd been called by the bigger stack. The more I think about it, the more I'm happy with the 8k bet I made.

I was willing to take my chance to hit my flush draw against tank and take him out, even if he doubled up I think I'd still have been  2nd in chips (I had closer to 40K).  I figured I'd make the reraise, assume the button would put me on a jack (which he did) and pass (which he didn't) then we'd see what the cards brought....seemed right at the time (maybe my several pints had something to do with it).

After the button eventually called I knew I was buggered. My worry with Steven's hesitation was that he had a better flush draw and i was drawing close to dead- as it was it ended up a 50/50 which I duly lost. Your face after we showed suggested you had the best of it though tank, plus your promise to "take it to the grave".

If you'd checked to me I'd have bet out, not all in,prob just 5/6k. I'd still defend my play based on the situation, maybe i should have called or passed but if my hand had hit  I would have doubled up to a point to put real pressure on Steven plus you would have been all but out of the game with only 8k and blinds about to hit 1.5/3k. Not the EV maximising play, but a drunken impatient gamble to push for first. Maybe I should just stick to the dealing.........
 

The reason I would have called with your hand Jinky was that Timaloy would have been likely to check it down with you once I was all-in.

After a few pints though, who knows, I mighta gone all-in there too (it'd need to be about 5 or 6 though ;) )

Yep, drink can make you do mad things. For example, I come home after the pub and find myself playing a NL Omaha Hi/Lo game on stars.......

Merry Christmas by the way

Easy fold.

If you call then your up against two opponents, who probably (based on their action) have better hands than you.  Or fold and hope the opponent with the shorter stack gets unlucky.