blonde poker forum

Playing Live


dont know how relevant the action is but

I raise QJ pre from sb - 1 caller (previous limper)

Board comes Q 2 8 K 8

Action: i bet he calls.......... I then check call turn, and then on the river i check - he bets 800 into like 2k

I say call (but dont throw my chips out as im pretty certain im good)

I roll my hand over infront of my chips, like literally just flip then as they  sit
 
(i have head phones in and the other guy just pushes his cards forward face down)

The deal picks up my cards, uses them to scoop the board and pushes the pot to the other guy

I obv complain - he said I hadnt called - i said obv I did  - why have i shown my hand

(FWIW dealer was clueless and could barely deal  let alone pay attention to what was going on)

I called for a ruling, ruling went in favour of the other guy - as the dealer didnt hear me say call because  he wasnt concentrating - other players at table werent paying attention (and no one 'heard me' - orly!)


ruling should be?

ruling is fine if the dealer hasn't heard you

next time take your headphones off, put chips in the pot when you make a call and don't let the dealer have your cards until he's pushing you the chips

i find this very difficult to believe - how come the other guy doesnt need to show (grosvenor rules)

because as far as everyone except you is concerned he bet and you mucked faceup. why should he show?

If he doesn't hear you then assumed you could be just show/folding your hand.

I don't think I've ever trusted a dealer to sort out my winning pot enough for this to happen.

ASSUMED - wp sir

i also dont show mucked hands - part of my point with the floor person

and yes i agree on bad dealers - i genuinely thought the other guy had mucked - and to be quite frank - im pretty sure he did muck and was an angle shooting prick

you're probably right that he was angle shooting but how could the td rule any different? dealer didn't hear you call and you didn't put any chips in the pot so there's no call and therefore no showdown. makes no difference here if you're right, he has to rule as he did

If you had your headphones in how do you know you said call loudly enough?

is that a joke

Er, no. Why would it be?

You reckon you said it loudly enough, yet it seems no one else heard you, and probably even you didn't hear you.

exactly, which is why I told you in my first reply to take your headphones off next time

i actually thought this guy!

To be fair, from the dealers point of view if he really hasn't heard you it does look like you've folded and are just showing the guy what you're folding.

If you've established the dealer is a bit of a prat, then you ought to treat him like one and just do everything by the book.  Don't assume anything.  And take your headphones out.

So tez when stuff like this happens because you get made to feel like your the one angle shooting which is so infuriating you get angry and look even more like your in the wrong...grrrrr ul
In some places when the action is HU and your closing its fine to reveal your cards. If this is the case then you flipping your hand over (providing they havent touched the muck) shouldnt kill your hand, however if that isnt the case then sigh gg you.

I know its annoying for me to say but i really do just always throw chips into a pot when i call, saves these problems + I can do it all stylish and pretend im durrrr ;)

The way it's gone down I think the ruling is right. You should be more careful to make sure you speak clearly and put chips in the pot. Not saying you've done anything wrong as such but you certainly haven't helped yourself.

However. I would have a bit of a whinge about the dealer. This whole situation would have been avoided had he followed correct procedure. That is, the pot should be pushed before the board is destroyed. Had it gone down this way you point out as he's pushing the pot that you called and the other guy can show his hand and let his cards speak. Easy.

[ ] situation avoided

everything happens as above, then guy speak up and says he's called, dealer says no you didn't, ruling is called for, same ruling is given and guy loses pot

why on earth would you not put chips into the pot if you are calling ?

too lazy ?

So many situations can be avoided by adopting some simple habits.

Always use a chip card (or a chip from your stack). This usually avoids cards being mucked accidentally.

Never let go of your cards until the chips are pushed towards you (although this can be embarrassing if you strictly follow this rule when you have lost the pot ;) )

In the situation in the OP, ruling was correct. Put your chips in if you want to call.

i agree with CF to a degree, i obv asked for the board to be reinstated, which was still achieveable but they said no!

As for protecting my cards, i hold them in my hand ALWAYS, but i have turned them up for show down, you cant expect me to hold them at showdown!

I know i made a mistake not putting my chips in, but i usually play in venues where the dealers pay attention, and i do this alot when im prety certain im good.

yeah I sometimes do this too, but won't turn my cards over until someone acknowledges the fact that I've called - say it again if you're not sure.

why would they reinstate the board? how would this change the fact that the ruling is that you folded?

every single person replying to this thread thinks the ruling was correct, just accept it and learn from it

i havent not accepted it - i think from your first post you are right

the whole situation has just reinforced why i dont play in local casinos, with terrrible dealers who couldnt care less

back to playing at DTD.

I was hoping to support Merrion in Leeds but alas, narp!

but you're kinda missing the point. exactly the same thing would happen at dtd or anywhere else if the dealer didn't hear you

Calling on the river and not putting the chips in is a fairly normal habit, like when you move all-in but don't actually put all your chips in. I find it pretty tilting when somebody moves all-in and spends the next 5 mins moving each stack individually across the line. However, I don't see the advantage in calling a river bet and quickly flipping your cards first so the villain you called can muck his hand.

i have never seen a dealer at DTD make this type of mistake thru not concentrating

there is no comparison in dealer quality - like not even close ...........EVER

why did you do this anyway?  he bet you called, he shows.



Your entire behaviour at this showdown is eccentric and if you want to avoid a re-occurence I suggest that you take the TD aside before the next tournament and familiarise him/her with your various quirks, likes and dislikes.

out of interst what if my hand was QQ or KK and i was playing cautiously in fear of 88

I think the point is the dealer did not hear you say call, therefore unless you had the absolute nuts, the situation is the same whatever your hand was or where ever you are, you can still be folding, it's just a (much) tighter the bigger your hand.  This is not really a dealer error unfortunately, it's your error for not putting your chips in to make the call and making sure you were heard when said the word call. 

Tough one but if the dealer hasn't heard you Guy I have no idea what they can do?

by your theory my hand should still be dead if i roll 88, because he hasnt heard me, and then i should get a penatly for folding the nuts face up too

Look just put your chips in when you call in future, problem solved!

'Cal'l can also sound very much like 'fold', especially when accents, background noise, dealer not looking at you when you speak, etc., is taken into account.

If the dealer genuinely didn't hear you, or misheard you, the only way you can mitigate against this situation happening is to move your chips over the line and 'make the call'.  At DTD, if the dealer hadn't heard you and the floor was called over, then the same ruling would have been made.

Did you win, by the way?

Lesson learned, don't leave any of your actions open to interpretation/needing the dealer to be on the ball especially when you're working with a bad dealer. If every player did everything by the book with regards to betting and calling actions then situations like this would never arise.

if no-one else at the table heard you say call maybe you were too pissed to talk