Title: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: The Camel on September 23, 2010, 10:55:52 PM When I first read this article I was pretty outraged this guy got 12 years in prison.
But the more I thought about it, the more I decided it was justified. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11397515 Thoughts anyone? Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: Maxriddles on September 23, 2010, 11:03:10 PM Seems fair to me, possibly even lenient.
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: stonecoldkiller on September 23, 2010, 11:06:34 PM He should have been jailed, but 12 years? Cold, calculated murderers get less than this in some cases, the victim said it made his life unbearable but he will now get back to some sort of normality, countless families have to live without lost ones as a result of murderers who get less than 12 years. The sentence seems hefty, or maybe its just that the justice system as a whole is totally unbalanced.
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightPaulFolds on September 24, 2010, 01:01:32 AM Civilized society requires that justice be administered properly and fairly, anyone who tries to compromise that for their own ends threatens society itself, send them down, for a long time.
It matters not who murders whom or how much is stolen from how many, if you do not have a justice system you can rely on to punish and deter it. I think that was probably the consideration before they looked at the (not insubstantial) effect on the victim. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: hettonmobster on September 24, 2010, 01:44:05 AM 12 years seems a bit harsh imo.
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: taximan007 on September 24, 2010, 03:46:40 AM Totally justified IMO on the grounds of possessing the pictures/images in the first place
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: AndrewT on September 24, 2010, 10:12:43 AM Compare with this case - where getting drunk and hitting a woman in the face and knocking a guy out cold is not deemed bad enough to go to jail at all.
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/841780-thugs-avoid-prison-after-tube-assault Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: Longines on September 24, 2010, 10:29:36 AM There was an interesting story on R4 this morning where they put a hypothetical sentencing scenario to a focus group and asked them what the appropriate sentence would be. I instantly said '3 years'.
The choices ranged from 100 hours community service to 9 months inside. Only one person said 9 months. A Judge said he would have given him 12 months. Sigh, didn't realise I was getting that old. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: ripple11 on September 24, 2010, 10:30:09 AM And for murder,........ 17 years in Jail if he keeps his nose clean, so out when he's 43.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-11382451 Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: MC on September 24, 2010, 10:44:07 AM Sentencing is a joke sometimes, such inconsistency around the country.
Read yesterday how a judge could only give a 2 year sentence as that was the maximum allowed for the crime when it blatantly warranted more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/09/23/i-m-driven-to-despair-115875-22581658/ 12 years really only means ~6 anyway. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: DaveShoelace on September 24, 2010, 10:57:32 AM 12 years is totally justified imo. First of all for having the images to plant in the first place.
But also the impact of this had he got away with it would have destroyed several lives, it would have lost the guy his job, probably caused a huge rift in his family, lost him all his friends and maybe even get him assaulted in some way for being a nonce. I've always thought that one of the hardest and unjust things in the world is when someone gets sentenced for something they haven't done, but add child porn to that and its the sort of thing that would make even the most sane man top themselves. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 11:06:04 AM 6 years in prison looks like suitable punishment for him and a deterrent to those who might consider doing the same thing - therefore providing protection to potential victims of a similar crime in the future. As Barry said, had he 'got away' with this crime look at the number of people's lives that would have been absolutely devastated. It's probably one of the most harmful crimes against an individual that doesn't actually involve physical injury that I can think of.
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: gatso on September 24, 2010, 11:37:05 AM rape and being a nonce are the 2 things you really don't want to be put away for if you've not done them. trying to get someone done for either is downright evil, hard to put a length of sentence on that
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: GreekStein on September 24, 2010, 11:49:55 AM might be a silly question but always wondered - in prison how do people know what you're in for?
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: Claw75 on September 24, 2010, 12:08:15 PM my initial reaction is that it seems harsh and i would have though somewhere around 5 years would be nearer the mark. If he's likely to serve 6 then sentence seems about right.
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: DaveShoelace on September 24, 2010, 12:30:42 PM might be a silly question but always wondered - in prison how do people know what you're in for? Good question, I also wondered that. Very unlikely someone goes up to his cellmate and says 'hiya, Im bob and I'm in for child porn' - I can only presume the screws whisper it to prisoners to get em beat up. If I went down I would tell people that I single handedly killed 30 coppers with my bare hands - that would get me respect and also scare people off. Then they would see me cry on the first night and I'd be rumbled. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightEnd on September 24, 2010, 12:53:28 PM Or those in for the offences where they are reviled by other prisoners are kept seperately/different wings?
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 01:50:04 PM Most convictions are announced publicly (I guess it's in the interest of the general public), so I'm sure both convicts and the prison officers can easily find out what people have done. With the higher profile cases everyone already knows most probably.
Of course, everyone's innocent in prison though. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: bobAlike on September 24, 2010, 02:49:03 PM might be a silly question but always wondered - in prison how do people know what you're in for? Good question, I also wondered that. Very unlikely someone goes up to his cellmate and says 'hiya, Im If I went down I would tell people that I single handedly killed 30 coppers with my bare hands - that would get me respect and also scare people off. Then they would see me cry on the first night and I'd be rumbled. Excuse me... FYP Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: The Camel on September 24, 2010, 03:25:32 PM The whole case reminded me of one my old hobby horses..
Why are people who are accused of crimes such as murder, rape or paedophilia named before they are found guilty? Look at Titus Bramble, if he's innocent of rape he will not deserve the torment he will undoubtedly receive from football supporters. Yet his accuser will not get named if he's innocent or guilty. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightEnd on September 24, 2010, 03:28:28 PM The whole case reminded me of one my old hobby horses.. Why are people who are accused of crimes such as murder, rape or paedophilia named before they are found guilty? Look at Titus Bramble, if he's innocent of rape he will not deserve the torment he will undoubtedly receive from football supporters. Yet his accuser will not get named if he's innocent or guilty. this is being changed by statute is it not? in the current parliament? in the plans of the current coalition government Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: The Camel on September 24, 2010, 03:32:31 PM The whole case reminded me of one my old hobby horses.. Why are people who are accused of crimes such as murder, rape or paedophilia named before they are found guilty? Look at Titus Bramble, if he's innocent of rape he will not deserve the torment he will undoubtedly receive from football supporters. Yet his accuser will not get named if he's innocent or guilty. this is being changed by statute is it not? in the current parliament? in the plans of the current coalition government Is it? That's really good news for our justice system. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightEnd on September 24, 2010, 03:35:48 PM I believe so. I forget the legal term but dual anonymity is planned, for the reasons you imply
Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: The Camel on September 24, 2010, 03:45:06 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: Boba Fett on September 24, 2010, 04:29:34 PM might be a silly question but always wondered - in prison how do people know what you're in for? Didnt you ever watch Prisoner Cell Block H???!!!! Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 06:55:47 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Definitely deserves a longer sentence, if not just for punishment in order to protect more kids from becoming victims. If he'd been a catholic priest, he'd have been able to get away with it as they seem to be able to act outside the law with relative immunity. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: mondatoo on September 24, 2010, 07:00:36 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 07:14:41 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightPaulFolds on September 24, 2010, 07:36:35 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. The Virginian woman who got topped last night while the two perps of the murder get life, just com Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: mondatoo on September 24, 2010, 08:02:34 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. I wasn't making a comparison to any other countries ways,just saying it's one of the biggest things wrong in this country. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: Jon MW on September 24, 2010, 09:48:00 PM The whole case reminded me of one my old hobby horses.. Why are people who are accused of crimes such as murder, rape or paedophilia named before they are found guilty? Look at Titus Bramble, if he's innocent of rape he will not deserve the torment he will undoubtedly receive from football supporters. Yet his accuser will not get named if he's innocent or guilty. this is being changed by statute is it not? in the current parliament? in the plans of the current coalition government Is it? That's really good news for our justice system. It's planned, but I would expect it to get dropped somewhere along the line Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 09:52:05 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. I wasn't making a comparison to any other countries ways,just saying it's one of the biggest things wrong in this country. OK, fair enough. But as you stated it's one of the biggest things wrong on this country, you're suggesting it's better elsewhere, otherwise it'd be a general problem (across all developed countries for example). I agree that there are specific problems with our justice system, but don't see it as a problem with this country. It's a common problem across all developed countries. I think a lot of the problems in the UK are social and economic issues, rather than being caused by the justice system (although it's obviously far from perfect). Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightPaulFolds on September 24, 2010, 10:04:19 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. I wasn't making a comparison to any other countries ways,just saying it's one of the biggest things wrong in this country. I think a lot of the problems in the UK are social and economic issues, rather than being caused by the justice system (although it's obviously far from perfect). Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 10:23:19 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. I wasn't making a comparison to any other countries ways,just saying it's one of the biggest things wrong in this country. I think a lot of the problems in the UK are social and economic issues, rather than being caused by the justice system (although it's obviously far from perfect). Don't see a significant difference in serious and violent crime between Scotland and the rest of the UK, so don't really see the relatively small differences in the justice systems being that relevant. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightPaulFolds on September 24, 2010, 11:08:18 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. I wasn't making a comparison to any other countries ways,just saying it's one of the biggest things wrong in this country. I think a lot of the problems in the UK are social and economic issues, rather than being caused by the justice system (although it's obviously far from perfect). Don't see a significant difference in serious and violent crime between Scotland and the rest of the UK, so don't really see the relatively small differences in the justice systems being that relevant. Homicide is much much higher in Scotland than England, the systematic basis of the justice system obviously completely different between the two, but as far as it impinges on your comparison here I have a feeling you're right. We have such a recent common administrative history, unlikely to be that different. I've seen justice administered in poorer nations, it sucks but that was normally cos the country's government generally sucked. America, agreed, seems to make many errors in its administration of justice (3 strikes, plea bargaining etc) Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: The Camel on September 24, 2010, 11:16:49 PM The very next day a guy gets 2/3rds of the sentence for what most would consider a far more serious series of crimes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-11403984 If the guy in the original post gets 12 years, surely this scumbag should have got life. Such a disgrace,the justice system in this country is absolutely pathetic and is one of the biggest things wrong with this country. It's far from perfect in many ways, but which countries' justice systems puts it to shame? Who gets it right? The justice system in the US for example is one of the worst I can think of in the 'west'. The Virginian woman who got topped last night while the two perps of the murder get life, just com I read about that case. How they can execute a woman with an IQ of 72 is beyond me. A sad indictment on US society. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: kinboshi on September 24, 2010, 11:49:43 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Comparison_with_other_countries
Amazing stats Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: doubleup on September 24, 2010, 11:57:12 PM The whole case reminded me of one my old hobby horses.. Why are people who are accused of crimes such as murder, rape or paedophilia named before they are found guilty? Look at Titus Bramble, if he's innocent of rape he will not deserve the torment he will undoubtedly receive from football supporters. Yet his accuser will not get named if he's innocent or guilty. this is being changed by statute is it not? in the current parliament? in the plans of the current coalition government Is it? That's really good news for our justice system. It's planned, but I would expect it to get dropped somewhere along the line I don't think this is going ahead. It apparently gives the message that victims of sexual offences are more likely to be giving false testimony than say victims of fraudsters. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: gatso on September 25, 2010, 01:06:43 AM Scotland does it a bit better imo. The Virginian woman who got topped last night while the two perps of the murder get life, just com what on earth does this say please? Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: TightPaulFolds on September 25, 2010, 01:28:09 AM Scotland does it a bit better imo. The Virginian woman who got topped last night while the two perps of the murder get life, just com what on earth does this say please? A lady from Virginia was executed by lethal injection for directing the killing of her former husband, while the two men who physically carried out the murder were given life imprisonment terms, reduced from possible death penalties as the result of plea bargains, what a joke. Title: Re: Interesting piece of Sentencing.. Post by: gatso on September 25, 2010, 01:30:43 AM aha, cheers
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