blonde poker forum

Right this hand happened a few rotations previously...

PokerStars Game #51749673145: Tournament #323674297, $25.00+$2.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2010/10/27 16:31:10 WET [2010/10/27 11:31:10 ET]
Table '323674297 1' 4-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Grizzu_79 (3500 in chips)
Seat 2: RS147 (4460 in chips)
Seat 3: bagz153 (8448 in chips)
Seat 4: Elbouw (6457 in chips)
Grizzu_79: posts the ante 10
RS147: posts the ante 10
bagz153: posts the ante 10
Elbouw: posts the ante 10
Elbouw: posts small blind 50
Grizzu_79: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bagz153 [Ac Jh]
RS147: folds
bagz153: raises 100 to 200
Elbouw: folds
Grizzu_79: raises 300 to 500
bagz153: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [4s 4d Js]
Grizzu_79: checks
bagz153: bets 500
Grizzu_79: raises 2490 to 2990 and is all-in
bagz153: calls 2490
*** TURN *** [4s 4d Js] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [4s 4d Js 2d] [Ks]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Grizzu_79: shows [2s 2h] (a full house, Deuces full of Fours)
bagz153: shows [Ac Jh] (two pair, Jacks and Fours)
Grizzu_79 collected 7070 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7070 | Rake 0
Board [4s 4d Js 2d Ks]
Seat 1: Grizzu_79 (big blind) showed [2s 2h] and won (7070) with a full house, Deuces full of Fours
Seat 2: RS147 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: bagz153 (button) showed [Ac Jh] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Fours
Seat 4: Elbouw (small blind) folded before Flop

yeah 50p whatever I know, I know.

Anyway couple rotations later...

PokerStars Game #51749863013: Tournament #323674297, $25.00+$2.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2010/10/27 16:35:42 WET [2010/10/27 11:35:42 ET]
Table '323674297 1' 4-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Grizzu_79 (7000 in chips)
Seat 2: RS147 (3560 in chips)
Seat 3: bagz153 (6328 in chips)
Seat 4: Elbouw (5977 in chips)
Grizzu_79: posts the ante 10
RS147: posts the ante 10
bagz153: posts the ante 10
Elbouw: posts the ante 10
Elbouw: posts small blind 50
Grizzu_79: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bagz153 [8h 8c]
RS147: folds
bagz153: raises 100 to 200
Elbouw: folds
Grizzu_79: raises 400 to 600
bagz153: raises 1200 to 1800
Grizzu_79: raises 5190 to 6990 and is all-in
bagz153: calls 4518 and is all-in

?

fuck it nvm and fuck poker!

PokerStars Game #51750120139: Tournament #323674297, $25.00+$2.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (60/120) - 2010/10/27 16:41:55 WET [2010/10/27 11:41:55 ET]
Table '323674297 42' 4-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: vincele1012 (12466 in chips)
Seat 2: bagz153 (12521 in chips)
Seat 3: saryura (5124 in chips)
Seat 4: Lidija63 (10995 in chips)
vincele1012: posts the ante 15
bagz153: posts the ante 15
saryura: posts the ante 15
Lidija63: posts the ante 15
Lidija63: posts small blind 60
vincele1012: posts big blind 120
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bagz153 [Qh Qc]
bagz153: raises 120 to 240
saryura: folds
Lidija63: raises 10740 to 10980 and is all-in
vincele1012: folds
bagz153: calls 10740
*** FLOP *** [5d Kd Ts]
*** TURN *** [5d Kd Ts]

*** RIVER *** [5d Kd Ts Td] [7d] *** SHOW DOWN *** Lidija63: shows [9h 9d] (a flush, King high) bagz153: shows [Qh Qc] (two pair, Queens and Tens) Lidija63 collected 22140 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 22140 | Rake 0 Board [5d Kd Ts Td 7d] Seat 1: vincele1012 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: bagz153 showed [Qh Qc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Tens Seat 3: saryura (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Lidija63 (small blind) showed [9h 9d] and won (22140) with a flush, King high

In the hand that isn't a bad beat I don't think you can 4-bet fold so either go back and flat the 3-bet or call now...

I don't like the idea of 4 bet folding pre! So yeah probs getting it in now we got to this point, but pretty sure you only beat aq ak here,

I prefer the flat and re assess pre (and u can happily set mine off these stacks).

what isn't a bad beat?

oh and obv not 4b folding, just meaning is 4bet getting it in fine, not just for value but to reaffirm that we have full power of our button.

i hate minraising with an ante

also 4bet sizing fine?

hmmm, because he's not going to fold much? do you not think it's ok because we're usually going to be HU?

Also this is a 4max tournie so going to be lots of HU pots so isnt too bad. When I play HU I dont start minraising until like 30-40bigs dependent on opponent (if I can 3x my good hands and min raise bad i.e they are tez) so dont min raise in tourneys as a standard.

minraising is fine if you think you're getting 3 bet a lot opening bigger.  wtf is this 4 bet about though

orly?

well he has to call 400 with over 5k behind, so its not ideal, but yes he can - whats ur point?

Your not getting close to the implied odds to setmine profitably. Also given the the limited information we have that he sets baby pairs aswell, we can probably safely assume he 3bets a wide enough range that everytime we hit a set we aren't guranteed to win his stack everytime.

Also OP i think you should point out this seems to be a 4max MTT which changes things somewhat. Also his 3bet size is altered in the hands (3bets to 500 wth 22, 600 this time) making me think he has it this time, esp given the previous hand. I'd 4bet call it off but i also wouldn't play an online MTT :P

providing you arent doing it 100%  of teh time there is nothing wrong taking shots getting 10:1 implied oddds imo

Granted i don't play MTT's but if you show me the Math that setmining 60bb's profitably (even from a 6bb 3bet) i'll happily backtrack on my statement. Although it perhaps opens a can of worms as to whether you can profitably setmine fairly shallow in 4max mtt's where people are "at it" more. I think IP calling the 3bet and playing in a majestic manner postflop may nearly have the same EV as 4bet calling, against this guy in this tournament any route you choose will be high variance, but never folding pre. LOL donkaments.

i dont think anyone has ever advocated folding pre.

mmmmmmmmmm

its 4max, pussssssys gonna loseeeeeeee

Whollyflush put out some good reasons why we can't just call to hit a set here.  I'd advocate a call here, sometimes we hit a set, sometimes we can call a street then he gives up, sometimes we call a street then he barrels a K or something and can call again etc.  Basically very often we are going to have the best hand postflop and given his 22 hand we don't really have to fold a lot but we manage to keep in a lot of hands we gonna do well against.

I'd put greater weight into this being because they are deeper stacked now than a bet sizing tell.

I will always mine at 10/1 implied odds but you don't have that here.  Implied odds doesn't mean how big is their stack divided by how much it's costing you.  It's how often you get paiiiid when you hit your set.  Again agree with whollyflush here, given that he 3 bet 22, our implied odds aren't very good at all here.  Implied odds are generally only their whole stack when they have a very strong hand (e.g. a massive nit opens UTG 9 handed is likely JJ+ AK sometimes TT AQ).

but tbfffffff, he c/jammed pretty huge with 22 on 44j board so he is obv stacking off pretty light too.

yeh ^^^ more reason to call than 4b pre

Yeah I agree, just mean our implied odds are probs greater than we think from a guy who 3bets pretty wide as it seems like he doesnt like to fold.

can i ask why u hate it?