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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: big poppa on October 27, 2010, 06:14:58 PM



Title: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: big poppa on October 27, 2010, 06:14:58 PM
Hi folks.  I've been reading blonde articles for over a year now and I thought it was time I grew a pair and posted something on here.  Before I do I would like to thank most people on here who s thinking into the game we love, has improved my game at least 70% to the extent I'm actually going to DTD and cashing/winning tournaments now, rather than gifting you my hard earned ££. :) If you're still awake I would like some advice on the following hand please:

DTD £50+8 10k starting chips, 15k Guaranteed

322 runners - 100 remaining

Blinds are 800-1600 with ante of 200. 30min clock

Average stack is 25,000 and hero is on 17,000 sitting in the big blind. My table rep has been good and I've pretty much shown premium hands when it's gone to show down.  The table has been quite loose with a lot of limping and not much 3 or 4 betting.

UTG +1 raises to 4k (chip leader on the table with 55k)  and is called by 2 other players including the small blind (mid seated player on 30k and small blind on 22k).  Comes to me in the big blind and I look down at  Ac Kc? Is this an obvious push? 16k in the pot and no one except under the gun has shown real strength.  Can I call and see a flop or is that nitty? Could a number of my outs already be gone with 3 limper's? Please shout if I've missed any info off. Cheers


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: gatso on October 27, 2010, 06:22:49 PM
just about the easiest shove you'll ever make in your life


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: outragous76 on October 27, 2010, 06:27:08 PM
very easy shove

if by some miracle u get it thru and they fold - you double your stack - if they call you are getting 2:1 on you rmoney and at worst you are flipping. (if the open raiser does have AA KK its just cold) -  the flatters shouldnt have AA KK

there is a good chance you are up against a worse ace, much more likely you are flipping


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: LeedsRhodesy on October 27, 2010, 06:33:32 PM

get it in pre you defo want to see all 5 cards with that hand if you only flat called and comes down a 10 hight and someone bets you have to fold


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Girgy85 on October 27, 2010, 06:36:31 PM
Fold pre.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: kinboshi on October 27, 2010, 06:45:44 PM
Yep, looks like an easy shove here.  With the stack sizes and the way the betting's gone, can't really see you doing anything else.  Looks like a good opportunity to try and at least double-up.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Eso Kral on October 27, 2010, 07:56:44 PM
very easy shove

if by some miracle u get it thru and they fold - you double your stack - if they call you are getting 2:1 on you rmoney and at worst you are flipping. (if the open raiser does have AA KK its just cold) -  the flatters shouldnt have AA KK

there is a good chance you are up against a worse ace, much more likely you are flipping
This ^^^^


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: BulldozerD on October 27, 2010, 08:06:20 PM
standard shove


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Ironside on October 27, 2010, 08:12:11 PM
i wish my shoves were all as easy as this one


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: MC on October 27, 2010, 08:12:56 PM
Have we shoved yet?


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: buzzharvey22 on October 27, 2010, 08:18:44 PM
Its only ace high, not even a pair


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Ironside on October 27, 2010, 08:25:14 PM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Girgy85 on October 27, 2010, 08:29:52 PM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

Erm why?


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: BulldozerD on October 27, 2010, 08:41:19 PM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

i think you just got levelled


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: CelticGeezeer on October 27, 2010, 08:49:20 PM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

Erm why?

He don't like money.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: pleno1 on October 27, 2010, 11:28:11 PM
make it 12k


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 28, 2010, 02:13:30 AM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

this is a level as well surely?

if it isnt, then are you sure?


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: LOJ on October 28, 2010, 11:16:55 AM
Have we shoved yet?


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: titaniumbean on October 28, 2010, 11:47:22 AM
make sure to do the  ;sexybanana; before you move in imo.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: outragous76 on October 28, 2010, 12:40:43 PM
Op

After all the banter in this thread (welcome to pha you're officially inducted), are you the type of person who doesn't like to play ak?

The reason being that this is clearly an easy shove, but you obv had your doubts. Care to elaborate on your doubts and hopefully we can reassure you why it is correct and make sure you snap shove the next time you get this spot arise.

Also what did you do, and what prompted you to post this specific spot?

G


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Cf on October 28, 2010, 02:11:21 PM


Blinds are 800-1600 with ante of 200.

hero is on 17,000I look down at  Ac Kc? Is this an obvious push?

Yes! I've omitted all the irrelevant details from your post (not that you shouldn't provide them!) and reduced it to all that is needed in this scenario! You only have 10 big blinds, plus a 200 running ante, and should be pushing AKs here 100% of the time preflop! Unless it goes raise/3bet/4bet/5bet/you or something daft!


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Ironside on October 28, 2010, 04:10:44 PM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

this is a level as well surely?

if it isnt, then are you sure?

there is a raisier and 2 limpers in the pot very likely your going to see showdown yes JJ/TT is ahead of AK preflop but doesn TT play better than AK 3 or 4 way

what sort of hands will call your shove if your very very lucky you might get called by an optomistic 99/88  which obviously JJ/TT plays better against
but the range of hands that are going to open then call/shove against your reraise after 2 people fallted his raise doesnt really include any pairs your beating
if the opener gets out the way the hands that have called then might call your shove i feel the AK will play better against than JJ they would be likely to be AQs AJs KQs type hands hoping you have a pair and they are flipping
now if all 3 of the players come in the hands you have to think your going to be against a bigger pair and over cards and your setting mining

obv if someone said to me what would you prefer HU and your oppo will have the other then i would take JJ everytime

but in this pot i would love to see the ranges you would put people on that might call your shove

best option would be for raiser and 1st caller to get out the way and then the 2nd caller comes in weak
but i cant see that happening too often when there the pot is already that big and stacks are shallow


ps i am shoving JJ here and possbily TT but very unlikely to shove any smaller pair there is very little FE i would just feel better to shove AK here than JJ or TT


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: buzzharvey22 on October 28, 2010, 07:10:53 PM
after grinding for 6 hours i dont want to put my torney life on the line with suited connectors


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: SuuPRlim on October 29, 2010, 03:19:22 AM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

this is a level as well surely?

if it isnt, then are you sure?

there is a raisier and 2 limpers in the pot very likely your going to see showdown yes JJ/TT is ahead of AK preflop but doesn TT play better than AK 3 or 4 way

what sort of hands will call your shove if your very very lucky you might get called by an optomistic 99/88  which obviously JJ/TT plays better against
but the range of hands that are going to open then call/shove against your reraise after 2 people fallted his raise doesnt really include any pairs your beating
if the opener gets out the way the hands that have called then might call your shove i feel the AK will play better against than JJ they would be likely to be AQs AJs KQs type hands hoping you have a pair and they are flipping
now if all 3 of the players come in the hands you have to think your going to be against a bigger pair and over cards and your setting mining

obv if someone said to me what would you prefer HU and your oppo will have the other then i would take JJ everytime

but in this pot i would love to see the ranges you would put people on that might call your shove

best option would be for raiser and 1st caller to get out the way and then the 2nd caller comes in weak
but i cant see that happening too often when there the pot is already that big and stacks are shallow


ps i am shoving JJ here and possbily TT but very unlikely to shove any smaller pair there is very little FE i would just feel better to shove AK here than JJ or TT


I was about to outright disagree with you, (had even typed out well mannered reposte) but then it seems you're a lot more right than I expected lol, vs a very tight range like you outlined AK does play marginally better.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 128,422,800  games     0.099 secs     1,297,200,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    56.184%     50.11%    06.08%          64348176      7804299.00   { AcKc }
Hand 1:    43.816%     37.74%    06.08%          48466026      7804299.00   { 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    54.324%     53.58%    00.74%         500923932      6962178.00   { JJ }
Hand 1:    45.676%     44.93%    00.74%         420069696      6962178.00   { 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }


If we widen villains ranges out

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    62.208%     58.60%    03.61%         147496746      9085901.00   { AcKc }
Hand 1:    37.792%     34.18%    03.61%          86040140      9085901.00   { 77+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    60.719%     60.10%    00.62%         944664120      9770160.00   { JJ }
Hand 1:    39.281%     38.66%    00.62%         607690632      9770160.00   { 77+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

......Then AKs still plays better....
Well I've learnt something I did not know. Im never going to fold either hand very often so I dont spose it'll make a lot of difference but still, interesting

ty


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: Ironside on October 29, 2010, 03:46:03 AM
Its only ace high, not even a pair

but with 10 big blinds and 3 others in the pot i would much rather have AK than TT or JJ

this is a level as well surely?

if it isnt, then are you sure?

there is a raisier and 2 limpers in the pot very likely your going to see showdown yes JJ/TT is ahead of AK preflop but doesn TT play better than AK 3 or 4 way

what sort of hands will call your shove if your very very lucky you might get called by an optomistic 99/88  which obviously JJ/TT plays better against
but the range of hands that are going to open then call/shove against your reraise after 2 people fallted his raise doesnt really include any pairs your beating
if the opener gets out the way the hands that have called then might call your shove i feel the AK will play better against than JJ they would be likely to be AQs AJs KQs type hands hoping you have a pair and they are flipping
now if all 3 of the players come in the hands you have to think your going to be against a bigger pair and over cards and your setting mining

obv if someone said to me what would you prefer HU and your oppo will have the other then i would take JJ everytime

but in this pot i would love to see the ranges you would put people on that might call your shove

best option would be for raiser and 1st caller to get out the way and then the 2nd caller comes in weak
but i cant see that happening too often when there the pot is already that big and stacks are shallow


ps i am shoving JJ here and possbily TT but very unlikely to shove any smaller pair there is very little FE i would just feel better to shove AK here than JJ or TT


I was about to outright disagree with you, (had even typed out well mannered reposte) but then it seems you're a lot more right than I expected lol, vs a very tight range like you outlined AK does play marginally better.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 128,422,800  games     0.099 secs     1,297,200,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    56.184%     50.11%    06.08%          64348176      7804299.00   { AcKc }
Hand 1:    43.816%     37.74%    06.08%          48466026      7804299.00   { 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    54.324%     53.58%    00.74%         500923932      6962178.00   { JJ }
Hand 1:    45.676%     44.93%    00.74%         420069696      6962178.00   { 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }


If we widen villains ranges out

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    62.208%     58.60%    03.61%         147496746      9085901.00   { AcKc }
Hand 1:    37.792%     34.18%    03.61%          86040140      9085901.00   { 77+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    60.719%     60.10%    00.62%         944664120      9770160.00   { JJ }
Hand 1:    39.281%     38.66%    00.62%         607690632      9770160.00   { 77+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

......Then AKs still plays better....
Well I've learnt something I did not know. Im never going to fold either hand very often so I dont spose it'll make a lot of difference but still, interesting

ty


as i said i aint folding JJ or AK i might fold TT but its villain dependant
the other fatctor is that if one person calls it MIGHT bring in another player into the pot
and AK will play better in a multi way pot than JJ

but thanks for putting it through the stove


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: big poppa on November 05, 2010, 04:44:11 PM
Hi folks.

Sorry about the late reply.  Thanks for all the input.  I was looking for conformation really tbh.  I pushed and the small blind called me with  7c 7d, gg me.  As i left the one of the players said it wasn't t the right move because i had to be racing and that some of my outs were probably out already.  Just got me doubting myself for a split second.  I'd do the same if faced with the same situation.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: SuuPRlim on November 05, 2010, 05:16:40 PM
Hi folks.

Sorry about the late reply.  Thanks for all the input.  I was looking for conformation really tbh.  I pushed and the small blind called me with  7c 7d, gg me.  As i left the one of the players said it wasn't t the right move because i had to be racing and that some of my outs were probably out already.  Just got me doubting myself for a split second.  I'd do the same if faced with the same situation.

you aren't always in a race, AQ/AJs will be there aswel as a spazzily played KQ type hand....
also you have 10bbs - so you need to win an allin at some point here looks like a fantastic oppurtunity

and LOL at the some of your outs being dead, unfortunately one of the biggest problems we face as poker players is that during the hand, we only know what cards are on the board and the 2 in our hand, all the other hands are face down so we dont get to know what they are....

Right move, ignore people who say things like this, they are pretty much the main reason why live poker is so soft much if the time.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: railtard1 on November 05, 2010, 05:49:07 PM
Hi folks.

Sorry about the late reply.  Thanks for all the input.  I was looking for conformation really tbh.  I pushed and the small blind called me with  7c 7d, gg me.  As i left the one of the players said it wasn't t the right move because i had to be racing and that some of my outs were probably out already.  Just got me doubting myself for a split second.  I'd do the same if faced with the same situation.

lol. Who ever said this to you is levelling. What does he expect you to do with 11bb and AKs, fold?
With the preflop action, its a time in NL holdem when you look at ur hole cards and want to find something shoveable. RUN BETTER finding the AK green IMO. fist pump jam with any amount of haste.
FWIW, i think its good new people are posting in PHA, its good for the site and good for the blonde community. I can imagine it being quite intimidating as people often get berated here or are faced with sarchastic or non constructive responses. Gl to u in the future, keep winning.


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: NigDawG on November 06, 2010, 05:06:21 AM

and LOL at the some of your outs being dead, unfortunately one of the biggest problems we face as poker players is that during the hand, we only know what cards are on the board and the 2 in our hand, all the other hands are face down so we dont get to know what they are....


you don't make some attempts to factor in possible dead cards dave? (doesn't make a diff with this hand obv)


Title: Re: New Member - DTD50 15kgtd push?
Post by: SuuPRlim on November 06, 2010, 03:55:24 PM
I just play my cards Bram, I leave the maths to you online wizzards

N.B I would do for sure, In situations where it was reevant i.e. you have a flush draw and really thought someone else folded a flush draw etc etc