blonde poker forum

First hand of a 200nl cash game at DTD this weekend. FWIW I am not the hero in the hand but it is a good mate. Hero has £400 and villain covers

Straddle UTG to £4 and 5 people including the blinds and the button (hero) flat call the straddle with  8h 9d

Flop is  5c 6d 7s

The straddler leads out for £15 and hero OTB calls.

Turn is the  8s

The straddler checks and hero bets $45 which is called pretty quickly

The river is the  6c and it is checked again to our Hero with a pot of around £150 in pot

I've spoke about this hand for over an hour in the car and we have came up with about 10 different lines/betsizes that we believe is right here.

Thoughts please on-
Villains calling range
Villains c/jamming value range
Bet sizing with our hand
Bet sizing with 77
The call on the flop
C/raising the river if you are the villain (without a house but as a bluff)

i raise flop

this was my first thought as well

yeah but we havn't and we have got to the river with a slowplayed flop nuts.

Bet fold like £90.

as much as we prolly should bet fold...I NEVER EVER WOuld in a live cash game,

people are too bad and seceptible to bizarre plays I cant ever fold here ever.

i disagree ldf.

I think the c/raise bluff on the river is the least used play by a fish in a cashgame.

he's got an overpair most of the time imo so i bet for that, 1/2 - 2/3s pot closer to 2/3s for the 'please fold' factor.  I'm never bet folding here either.

did u read the opening post?

I find it absolutely amazing that people would never consider bet folding this river. He c/r this river with a 9, 0% of the time and I think he very very rarely bluffs, why are you all calling?

Doesn't have an overpair either imo.

The more i play live cash games the less I am folding in these spots.

Most people v bet in these spots and don't c/r. If he doesnt perceive the strength of your hand he could easily be doing this with trips/ same hand/ bottom of str8 random bluffs.

There is obv no history, but I tank, sob a little, bemoan my luck, call ......... And probs end up scooping

But an oldish guy has just led a 567 flop, checked the 8 turn then c/r the 6 river, I doubt you ever see air here. If they want to bluff they probs just donk out or something. I put the thread up asking for opinions, so will stop writiing like I am correct, perhaps I am inded wrong.

i agree pleno, when he c-raises river, i think we're dead

If he straddles, does he not raise all pairs on his option?

Can he not have 34 or 48?

Other hands 78, 89, 99

I don't think our line looks like a flopped straight either, therefore increasing his spazzing hands.

This weekend, I flopped a str8 with 64 on a 578r flop, I raised table nits flip lead, Raised HER turn bet on K bringing 2nd spade, and I got c/r on an A river after I v bet small 1/3 pt. She had only played nut hands to this point, guess she just didn't believe me. She had air.

There is another dynamic here to. 1st hand. Some people will play on the fact that others don't want to do an entire buy in on their first hand and apply pressure. You see this all the time.

Although he could obv have it, I just think that there is enough spazz potential in this hand to justify a call, and I am a live cash nit!

Yeah but I think when we bet river we usually have a 9. 97,98,96,910 etc. Prob check behind turn with 2 pair. we could have 88.

Nope. I'd expect him to check these most of the time.


Never raises river with these hands. Ever

after he c/c turns he never c/r river with a low straight.

if you are villain and you have 56 how would you play the river, assuming youve played the same upto now.

I hate betfolding here.

If we were to look at this hand generically the situation is one where villain can quite easily read our hand and villain knows that he can rep something that beats our hand. 

So we are betting the river in the hope that villain is unable to read our hand and will call, but if he can't read our hand why wouldn't he raise with 6x?

If he can read our hand we shouldn't bet the river for value as it won't get called by worse, unless we want to induce a bluff.

not really.

on reading it properly. i could easily bet fold i think.

with the villain as described im bet folding this river 100% of the time. I think he sigh calls a bet of 60-75 and never c/r with a bluff or worse hand here. Against different villains of course, it's not quite so clear. But I agree that live fish almost never c/r bluff the river. I think villain has worse straights and 2pair a whole bunch here, and sometimes a house. Whether he'd c/r a house rather than just donk out I'm not sure. Either way, once he checks, I'm obv betting, and if he raises. I'm folding.

interesting question. stereotyping villain, I'd say he's unlikely c/r a bet of 80 or 90, but might raise a smaller bet. Whether he'd c/r at all here and not bet out, I'm not sure, more info on villain reqd. But I reckon generally he'd lead on this river with 56.

I 100% agree and like I said previously, I think the c/r river bluff is the least frequent move in love cash poker by bad fish, especially at 200nl.

calling range on the river i think is only 78 and 34, 84 the more i think about it.
I think he bets the flop with all these hands (plus all sets and 2pairs , 88, A7 and maybe 79 as well).

Which of these hands does he check the turn with? Most of them imo, except 79 and maybe sets. But I think he has two pair on the turn or 34 and 84 most of the time here. When he calls the £45 quickly I think his range is more weighted towards sets and two pairs (hate the 8 but figure they still have outs). But of course 34 and 84 he's prolly not folding here but I think he takes more time over calling (?).

On the river did villain check very quickly? If he checks quickly I think we can go ahead and be confident he has two pair or worse straights and we are good and think about how much he will call. Again if we get c/rd i think he's filled up and I'd fold.


If I'm the villain I'm not c/raising this river as a bluff very often. Our range is pretty much only straights and houses, it is unclear which as he might think you'd play sets like this (vbetting turn to get called by smallers sets and worse 2pairs for eg / semi bluffing for the rivers we fill up on). If i'm sure you have a straight then I might go ahead a make a large c/r. But if i'm unsure whether you'll fold a straight and sure you won't fold a boat, then I'm not bluffing here often.

If passive live nit c/raises this river you're dead pretty much always imo. Villains line looks exactly like 2pr that got there. The type of villain that you describe just doesn't make it 250 on the river with air very often at all in my experience of live cash

btw just so people dont think that he has c/r, I was merely asking what our line was. It is still on hero to act. My thoughts was b/f £75

Yeah I think I prefer a smallish river value bet too. We're only really getting value from the bottom end of the straight, can't see him showing up with a naked 6 or calling river with 78

I'd definitely have raised the flop though