blonde poker forum

i havent seen any on bbs hands and i have only shown one hand when i open in lp and got to river with the nut straight and my 75o for a complete dbl up
how do i play flop?

PokerStars Game #54731542742: Tournament #342663584, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (125/250) - 2010/12/23 20:27:44 WET [2010/12/23 15:27:44 ET]
Table '342663584 193' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Ironside (6095 in chips)
Seat 2: Bravro (6735 in chips)
Seat 3: bms71 (3000 in chips)
Seat 4: Toyzione (9805 in chips)
Seat 5: Universo34 (3000 in chips)
Seat 6: beyens (10942 in chips)
Seat 7: cobodeguzman (7860 in chips)
Seat 8: jonge84 (9300 in chips)
Seat 9: Denvin2009 (1410 in chips)
Ironside: posts the ante 30
Bravro: posts the ante 30
bms71: posts the ante 30
Toyzione: posts the ante 30
Universo34: posts the ante 30
beyens: posts the ante 30
cobodeguzman: posts the ante 30
jonge84: posts the ante 30
Denvin2009: posts the ante 30
Ironside: posts small blind 125
Bravro: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [9d 9c]
bms71: folds
Toyzione: folds
Universo34: folds
beyens: folds
cobodeguzman: folds
jonge84: folds
Denvin2009: folds
Ironside: raises 350 to 600
Bravro: calls 350
*** FLOP *** [4h Jd 5c]
Ironside: bets 1000
Bravro: raises 1500 to 2500

In the real world people shouldn't really be rasiing this flop at all, should be 3betting AJ pre BvB 20ish bbs affective and shouldn't ever be raise calling KJ or worse, and raising sets is pretty silly as well because your ACTUAL value range is pretty thin + not that vulnerable.

So i'd be bet calling. But its a $4 tourney and I wouldnt be in the slightest bit suprised if he shows up with  Js 8s or  Ahrt 6s. So meh bet call seems about right imo   

i tend to click the call button in blind vs blind battles a lot

Without any history on the guy I would be inclined to fold. You have plenty of chips to re-group. He might have a set, a pair of jacks or a straight draw. It is frustrating but let it go and wait for a better spot.

i folded didnt like it though

Im sure bet folding is the worst play "technically"

but i wouldnt be suprised if it was the right move on this specific occassion

at this level check flop is pretty standard. bluff catching at least one bullet is a better line here.

bet folding a hand like 99 is effectively turning it into a bluff

more than likely was, check fold seemed so week and bet calling seemed like a spew, posted to see if jamming was an option but i figure not as no-one mentioned it yet

No I think jamming is an option. and most liekly the right one

no


consider check calling



we could talk about villain raising polarised or merged ranges on dry boards all day but the fact of the matter is it's a $4 tournament and a ton of worse hands are going to call you when you bet the flop and very few are likely to raise you so bet/folding is absolutely fine even if he is repping a very narrow range some rando in a $4 probs has enough jacks that calling or jamming isn't going to be profitable.  i'd say b/f>c/c>b/c vs unknown $4 reg

is this a level?


i'd say "such a waste". Good luck with that buddy

like, its allways going to be an unknown in a 100000 runner $4 turbo on stars. Its not a hand to talk about ranges and how his value range is polarised etc etc etc, i think u either need to bet/call or even c/jam this flop, dont think i hate that too much. C/C flop i actually dislike unless we know exactly what were doing on all turn cards.

you seem to be under the impression that villains options on the flop are fold or raise when raise is actually by far the option he chooses least... unless i've grossly misunderstood your interpretation of this hand?  someone explain to me why b/f here is a waste!

lol, no. lets not forget that understand all this we're in a $4 tournament 16bb effective on the flop with wat is basically the nut-low top pair. I fail to see how bet/getting it in can possibly not be considered *1 option.


as opposed to what exactly? chk/fold or chk/call chk/call?

I can defo see the argument for bet folding - I prolly wudnt be able to bring myself to do it lol

effective BB's should only be used to determine if a pre flop shove is +EV or not. As soon as the pot is opened or a flop seen we revert back to regualr BB's and eff BB's no longer applies.  So effective stacks for both players are 20+bb's on the flop. Agree I'm not saying bet get it in isn't an option, just an option to bin off pretty easily vs rando $4 donk fishs. It allows him to play more perfectly and fold weaker and call better. c/c bluff catching at least 1 bullet is a pretty standard line here and it easily outweighs b/f and b/ai imo.

In my experience not many fish would CR that flop as a naked bluff most of the time and I suspect 99 is no good so I'm folding without reads.  If you lead out you allow vil to fold worse inc his bluffs and call with better (not great for a 99 on that flop). If you bet fold and vil is bluffing its a huge error.  If you c/c you keep this OOP pot smaller & keep vills range widest.

Bare in mind any scary turn or overcards should also slow him down, if it doesn't then you can ask yourself if he's FOS and if his flop bet makes sense given the run out of the board and the action??  If he barrels twice on the turn he likely has it but I expect most $4 fish to be checking turn through.

you are missing quite a bit of value by checking, fully expect to get called by Ax 5x 4x as well as some other fruity things on a dry board like this

? This makes no sense - Effective stack in a HU situation = the value of the smaller stack
/topic


I said this and you asked me if it was a level? Wat you were actually saying is you think bet folding is better?

Basically the discussion ITT is wats best, bet/folding or bet/calling and its impossible for us to say which is right with the current information we have

I would never check as I expect the $4 rando's to make bad calls more often than bad bets

seems like an EZ bet-fold. I thought the idea of $4 comps was you can keep your value range wide and fold when you get heat, without having to worry about being 'bluffed off the best hand' when the board is dry and his value range is narrow.

first off the question was "how do I play flop". Bet/x suck as lines given information. So if someones asking for advice point out what you would do differently, don't validate a mistake and say you'd bet/x....



you do realise there is a difference between effective STACKS and effective BIG BLINDS right?

I do not. please educate :)

I'm with lil dave on this one, I always just say 16bb eff as a shorthand way of saying effective stacks of 16bb...

(http://www.funnypictureblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/NotSureIfSerious.jpg)

Wait say wut



I have 1 mirrion big blinds, ickle dave is ickle and only has 4.


that's 4 bbs effective

or effective stacks are 4 big blinds.

auto top up buddy, Iv got 15

erm for auto top up to work you need maneys in your account innit.


I'm on form innit

(http://www.ukgameshows.com/atoz/programmes/c/crystal_maze/richard%20obrien.gif)

thats why it never works.

SPent all my money on toothpaste innit

Effective stacks are as you said. Effective big blinds are used pre flop in push/fold mode to decide if a shove is +EV or not. They are different from normal BB's in that they factor in the ante. Say you have 3000 chips (15 actual BB's) at 100/200 + ante, when you factor in the antes the true big blind might be more like 150/300 giving you an effective 10BB stack instead of 15BB's. Adjust your push/fold range accordingly.

In this hand on the flop both players were 20BB deep when OP decided to lead out

Im open to fact I may be wrong, given that im not really a tourney player exclusivley. But I think you're confusing the saying "15 BB effective" with the forst step of the M claclulation.

Anyway this is all irrelevant because when i said with have 16bbs effective wat I meant (clearly) was that the effective stack on the flop is 16bb

you may well be right about ^^^ but I've certainly never heard of it.