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Title: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: relaedgc on January 06, 2011, 08:54:59 AM Okay, I'm posting this at the bequest of a house mate because it caused some contention between those of us that witnessed this occur. I want to get your opinion on this decision that occurred on the bubble of a 10$ Rebuy on DTD online.
There are five players remaining and four paid. Top prize is £200 ish and fourth is £22. Hero is sitting on 35k. There's another player with 28k, two short stacks of like 10k and a player on around 40k. Blinds are 500/1000 and hero is dealt JJ UTG +1. UTG has 28k and shoves all in. Hero passes. My question is, is it justifiable to fold in this spot? Myself and another housemate went crazy when he passed -- his argument being that he doesn't need to race off against a guy with 28k chips when there are two short stacks. Thoughts, please. Be as harsh as you like. Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: Claw75 on January 06, 2011, 09:27:28 AM depends if his aim is to min cash or to win. I'm not folding. I bubble a lot.
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: GreekStein on January 06, 2011, 09:31:30 AM It's dependant on how the guy is playing, but I doubt I'm ever passing this. + Even if he loses he's still in 3rd place.
If hero is able to just rag on everyone and chip up then having the bubble still in place may be to his advantage but apart from AK, I don't see what villain can have that we're not dominating and if we win this pot, we're a lock to win the donkament. Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: Longy on January 06, 2011, 09:51:33 AM Never ever ever passing.
In an mtt with a top heavy payout structure, we are essentialy going for the win. We are deffo ahead of villains range and the advantage of winning this hand, put us in a great position to win the lot. With this kind of shove I would assume it is less likely villain has qq+. Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: JK on January 06, 2011, 06:04:56 PM As has been said, Im never passing...
As Cos mentioned, bubble strategy in some spots says that you should pass here so we can chip up using the bubble dynamics. However, we crush SO MUCH of his range, flipping against a proportion and crushed SO rarely, if ever. We call and win this pot, we have around 65k with 4 left, which is around the same as the other 3 combined. I cant pass here... Id rather stick rusty burning spoons in my eyes... Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: EvilPie on January 06, 2011, 06:16:41 PM One finger in the air. One finger clicking call button.
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 06, 2011, 09:21:58 PM Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: DMorgan on January 06, 2011, 09:34:41 PM Never folding here
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: millidonk on January 06, 2011, 09:42:05 PM If a guy folded this in my presence he would be an ex friend.... Folding and having the mindset that there are more short stacks left, once one or both of them double up you are bang in trouble!
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: MC on January 06, 2011, 11:07:10 PM You can justify folding 99 here but not JJ, especially when you can eliminate AA/KK from his range and probably QQ too as Longy mentioned.
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 07, 2011, 12:31:50 AM One for the ICM guys...
If we reverse the stack sizes how does this change our decision in this example? Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: JK on January 07, 2011, 03:32:59 AM One for the ICM guys... If we reverse the stack sizes how does this change our decision in this example? Asin we're covered? Or we're a shorty? Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: mondatoo on January 07, 2011, 03:34:36 AM Genuinely haven't read OP but my advice is go all in,or call an all in.One or tother.
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 07, 2011, 11:20:40 AM One for the ICM guys... If we reverse the stack sizes how does this change our decision in this example? Asin we're covered? Or we're a shorty? as in we have 28k the guy who jams 35k Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: AlexMartin on January 08, 2011, 01:28:16 PM he open jams 28 bigs? i mean fair enough discount AA and KK but i wouldnt include many smaller pp's in his range. Someone drop the icm in here against a realistic range. Depends how soft and easy to steal table is, but im not fist-pumping.
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: bhoywonder on January 08, 2011, 11:43:43 PM hmm..possibly discount ak too...aq,aj n under pairs....reckless play and its a call...
Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 09, 2011, 07:52:07 AM still waiting for some ICM/MTT genius to tell me if we're supposed to fold if we have 28k and he jams for 35k (other stacks the same)
I have no idea fwiw! Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: Longy on January 09, 2011, 08:27:37 AM still waiting for some ICM/MTT genius to tell me if we're supposed to fold if we have 28k and he jams for 35k (other stacks the same) I have no idea fwiw! No one is going to be able to do it, without exact payouts for every position. Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: fatboyslow on January 09, 2011, 10:28:18 AM With my history with JJ it should be an insta-fold regardless of where and when I see them ...... even heads up with 99% of chips in play :(
However in the OP situation I call and get rivered by a 4 card flush on the board to villains 2 high flush ...... In Lil Ds situation I still call and come up against AA, KK or QQ and get no help ... Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 09, 2011, 04:52:56 PM still waiting for some ICM/MTT genius to tell me if we're supposed to fold if we have 28k and he jams for 35k (other stacks the same) I have no idea fwiw! No one is going to be able to do it, without exact payouts for every position. Sigh. i'll just turn auto top up back on and play with a 100bb's tyvm Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 09, 2011, 04:53:59 PM With my history with JJ it should be an insta-fold regardless of where and when I see them ...... even heads up with 99% of chips in play :( However in the OP situation I call and get rivered by a 4 card flush on the board to villains 2 high flush ...... In Lil Ds situation I still call and come up against AA, KK or QQ and get no help ... NUTZ CARD CLUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or the original DTD as I call it, is this Jonni? If it is you need to call me sometime ***sorry to de-rail the thread*** pls cmtinue Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: BulldozerD on January 09, 2011, 05:22:34 PM With my history with JJ it should be an insta-fold regardless of where and when I see them ...... even heads up with 99% of chips in play :( However in the OP situation I call and get rivered by a 4 card flush on the board to villains 2 high flush ...... In Lil Ds situation I still call and come up against AA, KK or QQ and get no help ... there's three ways to play pocket jacks and they're all wrong......... to OP I snap this off without a very good reason to do otherwise Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: fatboyslow on January 09, 2011, 06:01:35 PM No, Not jonni ,
Its Andy B Sorry Dave Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 09, 2011, 08:34:45 PM Norrr dont be sorry thats even better than Jonni innit :)
Jacks are not that hard to play here, we either call cos we crush his range, or find some ICM reason to fold which there doesn't seem to be one How is the Nutz Andy? Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: fatboyslow on January 18, 2011, 04:52:51 PM Quiet I believe, though due to life getting in the way I haven't been for too long ....
Looking forward to getting back there shortly. Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: RED-DOG on January 18, 2011, 05:07:33 PM If a guy folded this in my presence he would be an ex friend.... What about if you heard about it but weren't there, or, (Even worse) were there, but had nipped to the loo? BTW - Do you ask if he would fold jacks in this spot before agreeing to be his friend in the first place? Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: SuuPRlim on January 18, 2011, 06:13:04 PM If a guy folded this in my presence he would be an ex friend.... What about if you heard about it but weren't there, or, (Even worse) were there, but had nipped to the loo? BTW - Do you ask if he would fold jacks in this spot before agreeing to be his friend in the first place? pretty stnd to run some pre-flop spots by someone before becoming mates no? Title: Re: Jacks on the bubble. Post by: Rupert on January 19, 2011, 03:40:03 AM Yeah i'm def calling, fuck him.
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