blonde poker forum

Hello, have only recently joined Blonde and this is my first post in this sections but had a hand that is still in my head from a live tournament yesterday that is still gnawing at me, have I played it wrong or did I get unlucky?
Very early in (second level 50 - 100) and have below average stack of 7,000 (9,500 being the starting stack with the early reg bonus) 2 villians, 1 who is a tight regular with above average of circa 11,000 and an unknown and from what I saw of him so far quiet a bad player who also has around 7,000 as he had lost some chips to me early to my flush with just top pair.
He is first to act and makes 200 and I am in midposition and I flat with a pair of fives and the button (tight regular) also flats.
Flop comes down  4d, 5d 6d and unknown now makes it 350 into the 750 pot, I decide to flat here mainly as I am up against 2 players and one is to act with 3 diamonds on the board (first mistake?). Tight regular also flats the 350.
Turn comes a Six and unknown bets 750 into the 1800 and I get the impression that he seems weak but now I decide to flat this bet as hoping that tight regular does have a flush and will come over the top, however he he also calls the bet. I am intending to shove all in on the river as I can not see how any of them have the straight flush and believe at least one will call my shove as my table image is of someone who will shove to get them to fold their better hands.
River is a 6 and now I have to be concerned about a random 6 (A-6) and quads. Unknown player at this stage puts in a bet of something like 1,100, I call and so does regular.
Regular has 7-7
Unknown has 8-8
I muck without showing, table believing I had a big flush.
Welcome comments/criticisms on my play
thanks

probably played it fine apart from calling river

WPIL- Welcome to PHA. It helps if you structure your posts a bit better imo, as my first reaction to your post was I can't be arsed to work out what is happening here.

Something like this is better imo

Live tourney (insert buyin here)

Blinds 50/100

Relevant stacks

UTG 7000 - Fishy Unknown lost pot to Hero with top pair against flush
Hero (MP) 7000 - Your image
Button 11500 - Tight regular

Our hand  5c  5h

UTG raises 200, Hero Calls and Button Calls, everyone else folds.

Flop  4d 5d 6d (pot 750)

UTG bets 350, Hero Calls, Button Calls

Turn  6h (Pot 1800)

UTG bets 750, call, call.

River  6s (pot 4050)

UTG bets 1100, Hero calls, Button calls

Thoughts???


I wouldn't show results either as it biases peoples responses.

Live HH's are a nightmare tbh

Oh and I would raise the flop & turn.

River is a bit crap, probably a fold.

Thanks for the feedback Longy, will do my best in future to set it out more clearly, hoping to do a few more as I want to take my poker more seriously in 2011 and to endeavor to improve. Sometimes hard to remember all the details especially live (maybe I should take a note book!) and at present pretty much just playing DYM on Sky at the moment and you don't really get that many diffcult decisions in them where I would need to post hands

I often call in these spots on the end, but mainly out of frustration rather than it being a good play, I think its a fold as played almost always.

fwiw I quite like flatting the turn once i've just called the flop, speshly IP, but I would have certainly raised the flop, try to get a 1p/diamond hand to stack off.

This

+1, the flop is defo a raise, the turn flatting is ok, but raising still preferable. The river is an easy fold. Fwiw I think your logic for why you're doing things is flawed even if what you do is ok.

Actually I quite like flatting the turn, but not for the reasons you gave. It allows the 3rd player to call when he is often drawing dead. If we raise, the button will fold often, and we have to hope the bettor has 6x, 44 or a flush, even though he rarely has any of these, and therefore we're hoping that he's bad enough to stack off with an overpair on this board. Slowplaying is often ill-advised but this seems a good spot to do so and trap in position.

The line taken is fine.... u just got a horror river.... not sure i like over inflating on the flop as your encouraging a virtual flip situation.. I prefer controlling this dangerous board... turn check is good for reasons already given...prob fold river as its always gonna be a crying call..

had similar situation at same venue last week flopped a set of 4's on a A 7 4 rainbow board in a multiway..led knowing one of these jokers has an Ace..turns an ace and we have happy days..rivers an ace and i almost throw up..lolz guy actually checked his quads to me...i sure did bet..

I dont think we're flipping very often, vs the kind of hands that stack off on the flop


board: 4d5d6d
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
5c5h   68.99%   668   30
Ad6h   31.01%   292   30


board: 4d5d6d
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
5c5h   58.54%   572   15
Ad7h   41.46%   403   15


board: 4d5d6d
Hand   Equity   Wins   Ties
5c5h   64.44%   623   30
AdAc   35.56%   337   30

Different strokes and all that neither way is wrong..just my style prefers not to give him the oppo of getting his money in with 2 cards to come on such a board

Hello Cambridge Alex
Thanks for your feedback, hoping to post many more hands and I am going to post at least 1 hand from each live tourney I play as I am sure this is going to help me improve, can you expand on why I would want the button to fold by me raising if a call by me allows him to come along when he is drawing dead. To summarise I should have raised the flop, say to 1,100 which probably would have got a fold from the tight regular and then probably a bad call from the unknown. Then on the Turn? Do I push hoping for a call from the unknown then, in fact pretty sure he would have called with the Eights (who then sucks out on me!!!).

And Mr Morris I am glad to say I was not the joker with the raggy ace but have been known to like those raggy aces but working hard on eliminating these suboptimal starting hands

Also am I able to post in Blonde via a Blackberry which would be usefull in getting more hand histories (or note pad at the table, think I may get stick for that????????)





 

the more you play the more you'll start to remember details about hands, notebook will speed up the process sure, if you can bear to do that! you can post via blackberry though, i do.

i like calling on the turn because the button will call dead often and it keeps the original bettor in.

+1 absolutely, and I like flatting entire range on any turn card as well.

I definitely play the flop more aggressively and raise.  You are very likely to have the best hand at this point but you get calls from a big range of hands that you are beating  Most big diamonds are probably going to call here along with a chance of a call from any 7's and 3's and probably most overpairs too.   You have pretty good equity against any flushes too and if anyone wants to get it in then call as enough overpairs and flush draws want to get it in to make it profitable as Dave has shown.  Call on turn is fine and you are realsitcally only worried about a six on the river so when it comes it is a bit sick and I fold I think as UTG is fairly likely to have an overpair given his action so far and if the button is tight as you mentioned then pairs are a big part of his range too.  You are beating very little here.

One other thing to think about is maybe a fold pre.  I know it is only 200 but often bad players will min raise in ep with very strong hands and if it looks a bit like a really weak steal attempt it is a spot that might see a reraise behind you that you can't call.  I generally hate calling in middle position with a hand as weak as this.  If you can't face folding I think I prefer reraising to like 650 to calling.

I think getting aggressive on this flop is not optimal...we have a strong hand but it is vulnerable.... we can easily lose control of a pot here that we don't need to... as said it can be played both ways however I like to try and build chips whilst minimising my risk rather than getting myself into situations where i can quite easily go out when there was no real need to... i personally think i can build chips without getting involved in big double up confrontations at this early level.

 Really don't like re raising or folding  pre with fives here... the value of this hand at this level is its implied odds of hitting a set and busting someone overplaying one pair especially if you do have a limper with Aces..and if you do have someone limping with a big hand you would have wasted 650 chips and not seen a flop. Worrying about someone squeezing behind you if you flat at 50-100 is not a huge consideration...squeezing usually comes at later levels when it is profitable to do so not for a couple of hundred chips... re raising pre here with such a weak hand more often leads to trouble as your basically turning your hand into a bluff from the off.. even if someone squeezes or wakes up with a hand at such a low blind level general rule of thumb would be to peel if its for 10% or less of your stack once again for the implication of mining your set and busting as at this ratio you can easily throw your hand away if you miss.

think you have the advantage of me sir as im not to sure who you are... the quad ace hand was with malcolm gee but was more of an example rather than a criticism of his play

I like the raise because it feels like a good spot to have a pretty thin value range, i.e. there are not that many hands you would actually play this aggressively with, but a fair few semi-bluffs/bluffs...makes its a lot easier for your villain to hero you with hands like 88 because he can give you credit for missed draws

Admittedly, vs certain players Sicilian's cautious approach might actually be the best way to get three streets of value, just call flop, just call turn value bet most rivers (fold if non pairing diamond comes) - you prolly cant win a big pot this way tho

I still think given the description of the players in this pot the first is better as like you say, the bad player probly wont fold nearly anything


norrrrr sub-optimal hands ftw!


I have a blackberry, and I dont think you can, i'm terrrrribles with stuff like this :(

yeah posting from blackberry is fine

I'm rubbish

+1 - its EZ

Anyone care to explain how as long as it is fairly easy, don't want it to make my life at the table more difficult that it is already!

+1