blonde poker forum

...can I find a call?

PokerStars Game #56156198245: Tournament #403010502, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2011/01/18 20:50:36 WET [2011/01/18 15:50:36 ET]
Table '403010502 13' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bmoney012 (4695 in chips)
Seat 2: hitthehole (3445 in chips)
Seat 3: Arnie_D (12305 in chips)
Seat 4: harddecision (17615 in chips)
Seat 5: vostok74 (5750 in chips)
Seat 6: Zareta (20350 in chips)
Seat 8: The Camel (19950 in chips)
Seat 9: HR_Dub (7890 in chips)
bmoney012: posts the ante 20
hitthehole: posts the ante 20
Arnie_D: posts the ante 20
harddecision: posts the ante 20
vostok74: posts the ante 20
Zareta: posts the ante 20
The Camel: posts the ante 20
HR_Dub: posts the ante 20
Zareta: posts small blind 100
The Camel: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to The Camel [Qd 7d]
HR_Dub: folds
bmoney012: folds
hitthehole: folds
Arnie_D: raises 275 to 475
harddecision: folds
vostok74: folds
Zareta: calls 375
The Camel: calls 275
*** FLOP *** [9s Jd Ts]
Zareta: checks
The Camel: checks
Arnie_D: checks
*** TURN *** [9s Jd Ts] [8d]
Zareta: bets 825
The Camel: calls 825
Arnie_D: calls 825
*** RIVER *** [9s Jd Ts 8d] [9d]
Zareta: bets 1825
The Camel: calls 1825
Arnie_D: raises 9160 to 10985 and is all-in
Zareta: folds

The Camel?

I don't think we are beating any of his value range, so i do a fold.

+1

Also fold preee

No chance I'm folding pre.

How about raising the turn?

Any reads on these dudes? I deffo puke then prob fold river after flatting. I think I probably play it all the same, if i've busted half my session or more very good chance I call river too obv.

Depends how good Arnie_D is and the sort of hands he raises.

Are 89, 9T, 9J in his range?

Surely he bets a set on that flop? If he's got 88 it's a sigh....

His value range crushes you but it looks like a lovely spot for an heroic bluff.

Just doesnt look a spot where he's going to be bluffing very often

Keef, I'd be interested to hear why you're never folding pre.

depends how loose  Arnie is pre, i'd think we can discount full houses almost exclusively apart from 88 and theres a ton more lower flushes than bigger ones, just depends if he like to splash around preflop. Looks like Zareta bet around 1800 into 3900, so id probably flick it in here. Dunno if 100/200 is in the rebuy period tho :P.

Actually with the J/9 and 8 of diamonds out there, i think its a fold. Pretty close spot decent hand.

i'm also folding pre - most of the time we miss completely, some of the time we flop top pair and lose 1 or 2 streets to KQ type hands, sometimes we flop a 2nd best draw, and although the pot odds are attractive i'd rather have a hand that can make a straight as well (I think Q8s is quite a bit better than Q7s here and I don't think Q7s is good enough to call).  If you think they are opening a lot then it's a good spot to squeeze so I don't mind doing that.

Rest of hand is fine, fold river can have 88 89 better flushes not many worse flushes and probably no bluffs.

ya i'd fold pre too.

Usually i think that comments about blue, green cards etc are very late 2009, early 2010, but i think in this particular case Humpy makes the right decision when he says:

I'm 100 bb deep. I've got position on another player with 100 bb. I'm not folding for 1.5 bb anything connected or suited.

Maybe as Brent says I play in another era, but those odds are just too juicy for my liking.

Anyways, what about raising the turn? Any value there?

Id never fold pre and I know I can make it a profitable call. And i wouldnt think its even close

Yeah I like raising the turn, try and get it in v's queen and freeroll. Also there are 2 flush draws so he may call/rasie with either of the above.

How would it be a freeroll getting it in vs another Q

effective stacks are 60bb deep tho. I too would fold or squeeze pre.

we haz fluish draw?

are they only using one card, a Queen? It's likely that unimproved, we lose thus not making it a freeroll.

q9/q10/qj/qq/aq?

the SB here has a pretty weak river range (which includes no boats imo) and you're range will be perceived as entirely straights and weak flushes i think,

Sure villain can have 88 and MIGHT chk flop IP with T9/J9 but his actual value range on the river is way to thin for my liking and we have pretty much the top or our range

I call.

(and I really don't think pre flop matters in the slightest between calling/folding)

Think you should be raisng turn majority of time in this spot.

yer i agree w this, id guess you would need a lot of info (mainly is this guy playing a tonne of tables or not) but this looks like the best river squeeze spot ever, something i guess you would expect from a breakeven player (!?!) because its so good its prolly bad.

Ha please people don't ever call here

Isn't this why it's such a great spot for a bluff?

What do we need to call? Obviously something uber strong.

I'm not saying I would call by the way but I can see a reason for doing so.

It's all dependant on whether we think our opponent is capable of finding a bluff here. Not many would be of course but once Camel has flatted he doesn't look strong, just looks like he has some showdown value.

Camel thought bettor was weaker than a flush so shover may well think so too.

dont try and get people to fold flushes

Yes, purely because no-one ever bluffs here. As such we have to fold.


This being a good reason as to why.

This line of thought is why I think this is the best bluff I've seen on a tv poker programme:

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZHS-ZNEgVg

Point made and proved probly lol