blonde poker forum

Today is Thursday. Not any particular Thursday though, this is the last Thursday of the month. This is the day everybody gets paiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid. This means that there are 3 tables running in the casino rather than the normal one. I sit down at the 100nl table and sneakily buy in for £250 (max is £150) around 1 hour later I have £251. There is a guy in seat 4 who has just riased to £7.50 pre flop and then bet £10 on the J4J flop and then called when a spewy Spaniard made it £26, 4 turn went c/c and he led for £35 on the Q river and showed AQ to win.

Pre Flop

A large lady from Bet365 straddles and UTG I make it £7.50 with  Qc Qd

I get called in 4 spots including the guy in the small blind (seat 4) (He is playing around £300)

The flop

Comes a pretty nice     Qh 5h 2c.

The smablind leads out for £22 and I make a flat cawl, everybody else gets out the way

The turn

Is the  Jh and after less than 1 second he checks, I check behind.

The river

Is the  8c and seat 4 reaches immediately for his chips pulling out a stack of reds (£50 and one pillar of his castle of chips) and very confidently looking slides them into the pot. I cawl.

Thoughts on flop/turn/river please.

raise flop imo, people never donk fold, you have two of the queens which prolly gives him more draws than value hands which he is never bet folding and if he has 55/22 there are a bunch of scare cards that might prevent you getting all £251 of chips matched plus I dont see how we can play for stacks if we dont raise the flop.

As played yup fine, id be tempted to bet the turn, but he will have a flush sometimes.

really tilts me when people call live 50/1 games 100nl, I have no idea why - i'm sure it's not right to call it that.

Interesting one.  In this kind of game not that many people will donk lead out with a flush draw IMO but you do see them but I would be more likely to be expecting to see JQ or something of that ilk even though we have two of the available queens.  I am also tempted to bet the turn as if he doesn't have a FD he is very much seeing this as being part of your range so likely won't get too out of line on the river without a flush.  As played i think you have to call the river.

raise at least 10pre imo. im sure u had yr reasons, but in those games you could open for 4x with most of your range, then 15x with Aces and Kings and nobody would catch on.

raise the flop 100% , for all the reasons dave said. As played, I like the turn check. I guess call the river too.


+1

Yh I would defo want to bet the turn as played, but I feel chk might be better cos I dont think we can get two streets off his made flop hands now ( Qs x) so a better line for value is probly to chk turn and bet river.

also redarmi, Iv PM'd you, I always wanted to ask something but dont wanna de rail the thread  :)up

ammended just for you

x

This seems a bit out of line pads

Everybody had 300+ and people in the game were multaiiiiiiii. I know most of them very well and we never ever object to people wanting to buy in for more. Whats other peoples thoughts on this? I do it almost every night I play, is it really bad?

You should take it up with the card room. If everyone is happy with a deeper game then the rules should be changed.

If a fish buys in for £150 and is up to £300 and you sit down and stack him straight away, it's great and +EV for you (in the short term) but unfair on him and he may be discouraged from playing again.

Cool. What if i sit for £150, grind it up to £750, lose a £1500 pot but want to keep on playing, still think its unacceptable to "illegally" rebuy there?

Yup

this.

you don't sneakily top up or buy in for more. People should always know what you have on the table IMO.

Its common knowledge in the casino that we do this. The cardroom supervisor sais he cant legally change the rules and if he see's people with bigger stacks at start iof night he reminds them of the rules, but as the night goes on he cant track every pot so people basically sit with whatever they like.

i dont mind flop, u have all the good cards.  bet the turn for sure.  rivers fine

really dont mind flop? just dont see what hes lead/folding very often into a multiway pot here. surely raising allows us to try and get stacks in good vs draws/2pr/sets which might be difficult to do on certain turns and rivers, and if his hand is that weak then were not going to get much more value from it on later streets anyway. Not convinced this is just an airball/a 5 or a 2 or something often enough to make calling > raising

+1

Was about to write the same thing.

I think he has 66-jj alot when he leads.

He prob still fkin peels some raises

sure, his range is pretty strong and weighted toward Qx/fd/sets rather than random 5x 2x however think about how strong it looks when the first guy donks, the next guy raises with 2 others behind him.  We aren't exactly doing this without a two pair+/a very strong draw.  Also there is very much merit in keeping spewy spaniards in with 65 or whatever random shit they are going to overcall with.  Also, vs the range we actually get it in with on the flop, lots of that range is combo draws/pair+fd (given that we have 2 Q blockers Qx is less likely if that does indeed get it in with us) which we aren't even in THAT great shape against.  We are more likely to stack Qx by just calling and we stack sets whatever (on non-h turns).

live poker who cares what it looks like?

also surely we have to worry less about stacking Qx as there arent that many combos left

this. these guys are massive fish. he wont have a fkn clue what our range should be in that spot. he has two cards and either they match some of the cards in the middle, or they could match by the river. how much is it dealer? call

haha tys xxxxxx

I feel like a bit of a picky fuck now lol wiiiiiiiiiii

didnt read past the bit where its 100nl, yet we can buy in for 150 so surely its 150nl? Then we just cheat and buyin for 250???

If I sit in a $1/$2 game online with $196 what game am I playing?

A 1/2 game

200nl - unless it has a max buyin of 196 in which case it's 196nl

description is too vague it could be a deepstack game or a shortstack game 1/2 is clear enough IMHO

yup if you say 1/2 it tells me the small blind is $1 and the big blind is $2 and I think that what I wanna know!

God you played this hand so bad imo.

I fold this river because five cards of the same suit beat three cards of the same picture.

Especially after he checks when the flush hits after betting out on the flop, deception ftw. His check is biw-riful and has instilled the exact though in your mind that he was trying to plant. That he got scared when it hit after you've only flatted him.

Can't believe nigh on everybody who replied call the river value bet, nice to know.

^^^ Lol.

Flatting the flop is fine imo. Turn is a bet for sure. As played think you should call the river

Also i don't think it's shady to buy in for £250 if your table is aware of it. I imagine if anyone objected you'd take it off? At my casino i'm generally fine with people putting on as much money as they like!

I lolled pretty hard. He played his hand like a frush so his range is polarized to a frush and only ever a frush! God pads, how don't you know this!!!

Sick level

pretty sure this post is a level

Understood. No criticism until >50 poasts. Sigh.

I can understand people saying flat the flop as it's the most efficient line to stack a Qx hand, but the chances of villain having a Q in this spot are so remote that the only thing he could lead with here are either a flush draw, two pair to value town a flush draw, or a lower set. Highly unlikely to have an overpair but still need to keep it in his range.

This is why I would put a chunky raise in on the flop. The only hands in his range that he's folding are airballs, or middle/bottom/pocket pair. Once we flat, these hands are going to pull up the rains massively and were never getting THAT much more chips anyway.

On a flop like this I want to play for stacks.

Hope I got levelled.

I wasn't saying anything about the criticism, tear him apart pls, but just found it funny how your post made it sound like his range is completely polarized. It's not THAT unlikely he has the case queen multi way full ring (it is unlikely, but not that bad). Also 2 pair/set combos. Agree more with your second post.

I don't think it was a level, but if it was, nh sir

Agree raise more pre, £12 min. There's a multiplier effect to preflop sizing, flop bets are bigger, turn bets are bigger and stacks are easier to get in, which is obv something you want with QQ. Also, don't wanna sound too much like a livepro here but you don't really want it to go 6-way to the flop.

Don't mind flop line at all. Dunno what lildave is on about when he says people don't donk/fold, has he played live before? Have people stopped 'finding out where they are'? Would not be suprised to see any of the following hands: A5, 77, TT, QT, Ah4x, and that's on top of the legitimate hands+draws we're crediting him with so far itt. The turn is 4:1 to come a heart and fish tend to bet way too big or way too small, so imo 80% of the time we can get very decent money in on the turn in abs crushing shape.

Turn is close imo, don't feel like we're getting 2 streets all that often so don't mind the check back tho.

River is obv call, guessing the guy had set of 5s hence the existence of this thread.

I agree flatting the flop is abso fine + would be my stnd i a variety of similar spots, Id would just personally expect an average live player to be donking reasonably strong OTF in a spot like this, and even if he is "finding out where he is" he might still flick another call in with one of the hands you listed "putting him on hearts"

I think you get less credit in the live arena raising flop than calling and raising a later street on a board like this,

I think the line taken once we;ve called the river is abso fine tho