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Title: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 26, 2011, 10:31:21 PM http://www.pokerhand.org/?6046735
Full Tilt Poker Game #29367812844: $40,000 KO Guarantee (228153752), Table 333 - 400/800 Ante 100 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:54:22 WET - 2011/03/26 [17:54:22 ET - 2011/03/26] Seat 1: SteveSoCal (12,491) Seat 2: zsuzs (17,470) Seat 3: danderfluff (4,895) Seat 4: Anjo26 (8,304) Seat 5: notorious p (33,048) Seat 6: KAISER KGB (48,733) Seat 7: neverbet (96,172) Seat 8: Howen218 (26,359) Seat 9: Milanxxx (18,691) SteveSoCal antes 100 zsuzs antes 100 danderfluff antes 100 Anjo26 antes 100 notorious p antes 100 KAISER KGB antes 100 neverbet antes 100 Howen218 antes 100 Milanxxx antes 100 SteveSoCal posts the small blind of 400 zsuzs posts the big blind of 800 The button is in seat #9 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to notorious p [Ts Td] danderfluff folds Anjo26 folds notorious p has 15 seconds left to act notorious p raises to 1,855 KAISER KGB has 15 seconds left to act KAISER KGB calls 1,855 neverbet has 15 seconds left to act neverbet raises to 4,111 Howen218 folds Milanxxx folds SteveSoCal folds zsuzs folds notorious p has 15 seconds left to act notorious p calls 2,256 KAISER KGB calls 2,256 *** FLOP *** [6s 5c 8s] notorious p checks KAISER KGB checks neverbet has 15 seconds left to act neverbet bets 8,888 notorious p has 15 seconds left to act notorious p folds KAISER KGB has 15 seconds left to act KAISER KGB has requested TIME KAISER KGB folds Uncalled bet of 8,888 returned to neverbet neverbet mucks neverbet wins the pot (14,433) *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 14,433 | Rake 0 Board: [6s 5c 8s] Seat 1: SteveSoCal (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 2: zsuzs (big blind) folded before the Flop Seat 3: danderfluff folded before the Flop Seat 4: Anjo26 folded before the Flop Seat 5: notorious p folded on the Flop Seat 6: KAISER KGB folded on the Flop Seat 7: neverbet collected (14,433), mucked Seat 8: Howen218 folded before the Flop Seat 9: Milanxxx (button) folded before the Flop he has been pretty tight (TIGHTER THAN ME) but small hand sample size he has bought in 4 times also he paused 3 secs before 3betting this is his first 3bet his cbet on the flop was around 8 secs is it bad pre to peel even tho im getting 4-1 or should i be getting it in on a good flop Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 26, 2011, 10:57:34 PM or is this not a tricky spot at all and i completely fucked the hand up
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: cambridgealex on March 26, 2011, 11:54:03 PM I play it the same. Comfortably deep enough to set mine. C/f fold is fine.
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: Rupert on March 26, 2011, 11:58:13 PM i'm all in pre and c/jamming this flop as played
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: cambridgealex on March 27, 2011, 12:01:22 AM Yeh that's what I said
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: redarmi on March 27, 2011, 12:05:22 AM It is a tricky spot. I think both folding and jamming are okay but think I prefer to fold on the basis that you flatted to setmine and now are thinking you might be good. A lot of the tricky spots I get myself in come from this kind of thinking. If youn had a plan then stick to it. If you didn't then why not???
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: EvilPie on March 27, 2011, 12:06:00 AM Sure getting 40 bigs in with a couple of tens against this action pre.
If he's played some funky moves then well done him. Just give it up. Set mine was fine though obv. Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: EvilPie on March 27, 2011, 12:09:06 AM Also if you think you're good now then you were also good pre so you should've jammed then.
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 27, 2011, 12:57:15 AM i'm all in pre and c/jamming this flop as played is jamming pre with 10s the bottom of ur range?would you do this with 9s? Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: Rupert on March 27, 2011, 02:00:15 AM i have no idea, there's numerous factors i'd used to decide
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: cambridgealex on March 27, 2011, 02:10:15 AM Paul described the guy as more of a nit than him!! Tens never good here pre or post.
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: Rupert on March 27, 2011, 02:15:49 AM aight fold then
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: skolsuper on March 27, 2011, 03:02:54 AM i'm all in pre and c/jamming this flop as played Would be a more interesting spot if it were actually almost a min 3bet. This sizing is perfectly normal Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: jakally on March 27, 2011, 03:10:47 AM i'm all in pre and c/jamming this flop as played Would be a more interesting spot if it were actually almost a min 3bet. This sizing is perfectly normal Seems normal for a 3 bet against an open.... is small for a 3 bet versus an open and a call. Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: skolsuper on March 27, 2011, 03:23:10 AM i'm all in pre and c/jamming this flop as played Would be a more interesting spot if it were actually almost a min 3bet. This sizing is perfectly normal Seems normal for a 3 bet against an open.... is small for a 3 bet versus an open and a call. Oops. I should pay more attention Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: DMorgan on March 27, 2011, 05:35:57 AM Set mine is fine, c/f flop though I think readless his preflop range has you pretty crushed. His sizing is too small for it to be AK here imo
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: SuuPRlim on March 27, 2011, 12:58:55 PM Am I missing something here?
some-one with lots of chips (presumably been reasonably active) opens, and someone in position with even more chips 3bets? And his range here is AK/JJ+ ? Surely paul's perceived range here is ridic wider than TT, and the guys 3bet range is INSANELY wider than JJ? And now we have an overpair?? I just don't get at all how we can fold this flop. if he isn't good enough to stick it in ur eye light can we 4bet fold pre? Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: redarmi on March 27, 2011, 01:58:40 PM Am I missing something here? some-one with lots of chips (presumably been reasonably active) opens, and someone in position with even more chips 3bets? And his range here is AK/JJ+ ? Surely paul's perceived range here is ridic wider than TT, and the guys 3bet range is INSANELY wider than JJ? And now we have an overpair?? I just don't get at all how we can fold this flop. if he isn't good enough to stick it in ur eye light can we 4bet fold pre? Even if his range is 55+ and AQo+ we aren't that likely to be in good shape on this flop though Dave and if it is even wider does he really c-bet his entire range given stacks?? I do think it is cloe but do we really want to jam this thin? Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: SuuPRlim on March 27, 2011, 02:07:39 PM Am I missing something here? some-one with lots of chips (presumably been reasonably active) opens, and someone in position with even more chips 3bets? And his range here is AK/JJ+ ? Surely paul's perceived range here is ridic wider than TT, and the guys 3bet range is INSANELY wider than JJ? And now we have an overpair?? I just don't get at all how we can fold this flop. if he isn't good enough to stick it in ur eye light can we 4bet fold pre? Even if his range is 55+ and AQo+ we aren't that likely to be in good shape on this flop though Dave and if it is even wider does he really c-bet his entire range given stacks?? I do think it is cloe but do we really want to jam this thin? yh all valid points, can someone work out what % of the time he has to fold the flop to make a jam +EV Id guess it wuold have to be quite high if he is never folding worse. I just think he can have air such a lot here starting to like a 4bet pre more and more, (to fold or get in depending on what we think of the villain, prolly fold in this case) Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: redarmi on March 27, 2011, 02:59:29 PM Yeah I quite like 4bet folding too (never thought I would say that sentence!)
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: EvilPie on March 27, 2011, 03:08:12 PM Yeah I quite like 4bet folding too (never thought I would say that sentence!) What's the plan when he flats the 4 bet and we get this flop? Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 27, 2011, 03:15:00 PM If we 4bet pre we have to get it in this flop surely
What's are4 bet sizing 2.5 times the 3bet Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: SuuPRlim on March 27, 2011, 03:27:22 PM 4bet to 11k, (pot will be 24.1k and we have 22k back) so we can jam?
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: EvilPie on March 27, 2011, 03:33:51 PM 4bet to 11k, (pot will be 24.1k and we have 22k back) so we can jam? So you were 4 bet folding pre until he flatted now you're jamming? That let's him off the hook if he had AK and gifts him your stack with anything that beats you. Doesn't seem ideal. Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: SuuPRlim on March 27, 2011, 06:09:29 PM 4bet to 11k, (pot will be 24.1k and we have 22k back) so we can jam? So you were 4 bet folding pre until he flatted now you're jamming? That let's him off the hook if he had AK and gifts him your stack with anything that beats you. Doesn't seem ideal. seems to be much bet than 4bet chk/folding imo, also I would expect to be flatted very infrequently. id expect him to fold preflop the vast majority of the time and 5ball AI the rest Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 27, 2011, 07:10:00 PM If he didn't pause on the cbet I woulda checked jammed it
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: AlexMartin on March 27, 2011, 10:05:01 PM im lost, get dubs to see this thread please.
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: SuuPRlim on March 27, 2011, 11:36:32 PM I think taking TT as a set mine vs what could be a pretty wide 3bet range is the nut low line. I think id rather fold pre
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 27, 2011, 11:42:03 PM I think taking TT as a set mine vs what could be a pretty wide 3bet range is the nut low line. I think id rather fold pre folding pre was an option i was considering quite abit at the time Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: pleno1 on March 28, 2011, 07:56:14 AM 4b call.
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: NigDawG on March 28, 2011, 08:42:24 AM i would puke at his sizing and fold pre i hope
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: paulhouk03 on March 28, 2011, 01:12:24 PM Pleno what would u do with 9s or 8s here?
Still 4bet call Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: Skippy on March 28, 2011, 01:56:44 PM We aren't deep enough to set mine imo. On the 2+2 MTT strategy forums, they say you need about 12-15x the call size to make set mining profitable. You've only got 10x the call size left. I think if you are sure on your read that he is only 3 betting with JJ+, AK, you've got to do a fold.
In the end, if you are looking at 3 cards lower than a 10, and you aren't happy, then you've messed up somewhere. Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: cambridgealex on March 28, 2011, 05:29:12 PM We aren't deep enough to set mine imo. On the 2+2 MTT strategy forums, they say you need about 12-15x the call size to make set mining profitable. You've only got 10x the call size left. I think if you are sure on your read that he is only 3 betting with JJ+, AK, you've got to do a fold. In the end, if you are looking at 3 cards lower than a 10, and you aren't happy, then you've messed up somewhere. he has 29k left, and the pot is 12k. its 2.2k to call - easily enough to setmine. Even if we use your 15x figure, 15x 2.2 = 33k he needs to win. if he gets stacks in he wins 29k plus the 12k already there. Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: George2Loose on March 28, 2011, 05:30:39 PM We aren't deep enough to set mine imo. On the 2+2 MTT strategy forums, they say you need about 12-15x the call size to make set mining profitable. You've only got 10x the call size left. I think if you are sure on your read that he is only 3 betting with JJ+, AK, you've got to do a fold. In the end, if you are looking at 3 cards lower than a 10, and you aren't happy, then you've messed up somewhere. he has 29k left, and the pot is 12k. its 2.2k to call - easily enough to setmine. Even if we use your 15x figure, 15x 2.2 = 33k he needs to win. if he gets stacks in he wins 29k plus the 12k already there. Yeh Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: SuuPRlim on March 28, 2011, 06:17:49 PM not a good spot to setmine imo
Title: Re: oop with tens to a almost min 3bet Post by: strak33 on March 28, 2011, 08:07:02 PM Think i am agreeing with the no set mining here.
This has to be a fold pre the more i look at it. Hate flat call the most but in game i am sure i just click it and hate myself. |