blonde poker forum

Played this hand in a 1/2 6-max game on Stars, just sat down at the table, so have no reads on anyone, think I had a few notes on a few players, but the villain in this hand I just have marked as a fish from their 'win'rate.

***** Hand History for Game 62237897510 ***** (Poker Stars)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, May 17, 08:40:54 ET 2011
Table Rauma VI (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 2: PokerPhil365 ( $279.65 USD )
Seat 4: ivanildo ( $319.75 USD )
Seat 5: fylhtq81 ( $214.55 USD )
Seat 6: Min-raiseFTW ( $200.00 USD )
PokerPhil365 posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
ivanildo posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Min-raiseFTW [  Qc Ks ]
fylhtq81 folds
Min-raiseFTW raises [$6.00 USD]
PokerPhil365 calls [$5.00 USD]
ivanildo calls [$4.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, Qs, 8d ]
PokerPhil365 checks
ivanildo checks
Min-raiseFTW bets [$12.00 USD]
PokerPhil365 raises [$24.00 USD]
ivanildo folds
Min-raiseFTW calls [$12.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
PokerPhil365 bets [$66.00 USD]
Min-raiseFTW ???

Want a few opinions here. Is this a fold/call/shove spot for you?
If folding, what do we put opp on?
If shoving, what do we get called by that we beat/ get to fold that we dont beat.
If calling what do we plan to do on various river cards (assuming we are shoved on basically every time with $104 back)?
    e.g   1)  Td  2)  4s  3)   Ahrt  4) 8s  5)  2c

Also do you ever 3-bet the flop? is calling super-standard for everyone? is folding ever even a consideration?

Not sure why you have the guy tagged as a fish really tbh if you have no notes and have just sat down.  Given he is small blind he could have a pretty wide range here but the way he has played it I can't see him having anything you beat really except one of those bluffs that some players seem to like to plan before any cards come out but don't really see that he plays something like JQ or QT like this.  if I had to guess I would think he probably has a set of some kind.  There aren't really any draws out there to worry about and 2 pair would be very spewy preflop by him so 88 or 44 but there is a possibility that he has an overpair that he was slowplaying pre??  He has air a bit I would think but not enough to call.

Fold on the turn IMO. He might be a fish but the insta click on the flop makes me think he's ahead of you more often than not.

Shoving on the turn makes no sense to me as he shouldn't call with anything you beat, so calling >>>shoving IMO. (Might as well get him to fire another bet in to you on the river and catch his bluff then)

If you're calling turn you have to call just about every river as well IMO. If you reckon you're ahead on the turn you should also be ahead on the river (you're already losing to AQ so an Ace on the river doesn't change a thing for me)

Your sn confuses things, he could just be taking the piss on the flop.  :D

Call pre
Call flop
Fold turn (i probs cant do this for what its worth)
If I call the turn I sigh call any river.

Never shoving the turn, let him get it in.

hes on BTN right? am guessing this is just a mis-type. if anything raise bigger than usual when a call happy fish is in the blinds.

guessing u ptr'd him, guy is clearly a huge whale in the games. Given that and also the min re raise line, ruling out any 2pair combos is stupid. In my experience the min re-raise then bet big is a classic nuts line with this sort of fish. Easy fold on the turn based on what we know (as others said shoving is way worst).  Dont see much to be gained from 3b the flop without reads or stats on his postflop range balance.

Admittedly i dont play 1-2 holdem but 4 handed and theres a whale in the game and we are worried on a Q84 rainbow with KQ in a single raised pot when he calls in the sb and min cr the flop?????????????? Really? If the player is a massive whale id just go ahead and 3bet the flop, he probably wont fold an 8. If im calling the flop id probably not bother looking at the turn and river and just keep clicking call.

Obviously if he had a ridiculously low aggression factor then this would change

Note: I assume everyone has noted that his turn bet is exactly a pot-sized bet. $66 into $66

Interesting thing was that this was the first hand we'd played as 4-handed. 2 players just sat out from the hand before, so my thought process was that the villain would not really be adjusting his ranges accordingly and would therefore have a standard 6-max range for the call he's made preflop. I had Q8 in his range, but ruled out Q4 or 84. On the turn it seems like an odd 2-pair bet-sizing, or if he has a set, also very large. He can clearly still be playing for stacks on the river with a standard 2/3 pot bet.

When people find these weird lines I generally seem to call down a bit too often here. In this instance because the only hands I feel I am behind to are Q8, 88 and 44, none of which I imagine villain will be betting pot on the turn. Concluded that even though I do not have a specific read or narrow range for the villain, seemed like a call-spot, knowing that I am calling off stacks on almost all rivers, just allowing his air range to keep barrelling (hence shoving the turn imo is terrible).

This also amused me. My sn is from HU play where I min-raise every button. But when people start doing it in 6-max....   ;madasahatstand;

giving him far too much credit

vs some fish it's an easy flop fold cos they have a set
versus other it's an easy call every street
against an unknown good luck guessing.

also it's not really a weird line, just weird amounts to bet.

It isn't a weird line except for the fact that he doesn't have to protect against anything as it is pretty much as dry a board as is possible but most fish don't really consider that when they have big hands