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Title: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 07:50:14 PM been at table 8 hands neither of us have played a hand in that time
3600 started 1100 left average stack about 9k how was my line? PokerStars Game #63026589366: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2011/06/06 19:44:05 WET [2011/06/06 14:44:05 ET] Table '424010421 135' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: poliandrs (21302 in chips) Seat 2: V.Belkin (9444 in chips) Seat 3: lonfi (6382 in chips) Seat 4: salwille (4437 in chips) Seat 5: Louis_Vee (10018 in chips) Seat 6: Ironside (17358 in chips) Seat 7: jocko617 (32881 in chips) Seat 8: gendyn (14181 in chips) Seat 9: tommygotNUTZ (13244 in chips) poliandrs: posts the ante 25 V.Belkin: posts the ante 25 lonfi: posts the ante 25 salwille: posts the ante 25 Louis_Vee: posts the ante 25 Ironside: posts the ante 25 jocko617: posts the ante 25 gendyn: posts the ante 25 tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 25 Louis_Vee: posts small blind 125 Ironside: posts big blind 250 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ironside [Jd Ah] jocko617: folds gendyn: folds tommygotNUTZ: folds poliandrs: folds V.Belkin: raises 250 to 500 lonfi: folds salwille: folds Louis_Vee: folds Ironside: raises 750 to 1250 V.Belkin: calls 750 *** FLOP *** [Jh 3s 5c] Ironside: bets 1500 V.Belkin: raises 1500 to 3000 Ironside: calls 1500 *** TURN *** [Jh 3s 5c] [9s] Ironside: bets 5250 Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: WPIL on June 06, 2011, 07:55:25 PM His Min Raises would be cause for concern unless that was his MO but 8 hands in (not a lot to go on) and he has not played a hand, I would have come over the top of his min raise on the flop (I am bad though!)
Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 07:58:03 PM Why are we 3 betting AJo from the BB?
On the flop you're beat, on the turn you're spewing. Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:02:49 PM 3b AJ pre from bb as i am ahead of most peoples range if i get 4b i can get awa losing the minium to better hands without folding to worse
do you honestly think that calling the 3b pre then betting then min raising the flop is strong? Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: pleno1 on June 06, 2011, 08:07:28 PM I call flop and c/jam turn
Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:09:07 PM I call flop and c/jam turn if i check turn i wont be able to jam it will be a call or check check giving him a free card Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 08:11:13 PM 3b AJ pre from bb as i am ahead of most peoples range if i get 4b i can get awa losing the minium to better hands without folding to worse do you honestly think that calling the 3b pre then betting then min raising the flop is strong? You're turning a decent hand into a bluff effectively then? Do you 3 bet fold 88? What range are we 3bet folding in this spot? Your actions conflict with your thoughts. If you don't think him min-raising the flop is strong and you decide you're ahead and flat call the flop, why would you lead out on the turn? Surely you check to let him bluff shove. He's got about 5k back and the pot's 7.5k ish. What do you hope will happen on the turn when you lead into him? Are you somehow trying to get him to call off with AK high? I don't get it. Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: pleno1 on June 06, 2011, 08:13:15 PM I call flop and c/jam turn if i check turn i wont be able to jam it will be a call or check check giving him a free card na if he bets 5k then u obv shove he has 9k effective at start hand Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 08:17:48 PM I call flop and c/jam turn if i check turn i wont be able to jam it will be a call or check check giving him a free card na if he bets 5k then u obv shove he has 9k effective at start hand Is this a level? He has 9444 to start the hand and with the 25 ante, 1250 pf and 3000 otf, means he has 5169 left with the pot at 7.5k. How do you suppose we c/jam? Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:18:22 PM I call flop and c/jam turn if i check turn i wont be able to jam it will be a call or check check giving him a free card na if he bets 5k then u obv shove he has 9k effective at start hand he has 5k left at turn so if i check he jams and i call my turn bet would put him all in 3b AJ pre from bb as i am ahead of most peoples range if i get 4b i can get awa losing the minium to better hands without folding to worse do you honestly think that calling the 3b pre then betting then min raising the flop is strong? You're turning a decent hand into a bluff effectively then? Do you 3 bet fold 88? What range are we 3bet folding in this spot? Your actions conflict with your thoughts. If you don't think him min-raising the flop is strong and you decide you're ahead and flat call the flop, why would you lead out on the turn? Surely you check to let him bluff shove. He's got about 5k back and the pot's 7.5k ish. What do you hope will happen on the turn when you lead into him? Are you somehow trying to get him to call off with AK high? I don't get it. my turn bet was to get him to call with KJ or pocket pair type hands he might check behind with on turn Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 08:27:36 PM my turn bet was to get him to call with KJ or pocket pair type hands he might check behind with on turn You're hoping he has 77-1010 then on the flop or KJ obv? Let's break this down. You've 3 bet pf and he's flatted from the HJ seat. He's minraised you otf putting in around 45% of his stack and you've flatted. You then lead out on the turn hoping to get a call from 77-1010 or KJ. Put yourself in his shoes, you've been 3 bet pf, you've minraised the cbet and got a flat call, what hands are you stacking off with on the turn? Also, do you think KJ is a genuine holding for him in this spot? Can you answer this bit: You're turning a decent hand into a bluff effectively then? Do you 3 bet fold 88? What range are we 3bet folding in this spot? Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: muckthenuts on June 06, 2011, 08:31:17 PM Calling is better than 3b imo but if you're gonna do it make it 1500-1750 pls.
Betting flop and shoving over the raise Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:32:32 PM 3b folding all my 3b bluffs 3b calling 77+ ATs+ possible KQs
but i am a luck box that need to get these type hands to win pots when i get them as i am card dead for most of the time and never seem to find hands or poistions everyone else keep talking about to keep my stack in place Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: WPIL on June 06, 2011, 08:33:39 PM He calls with better and folds worse - simple
Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 08:39:19 PM 3b folding all my 3b bluffs 3b calling 77+ ATs+ possible KQs but i am a luck box that need to get these type hands to win pots when i get them as i am card dead for most of the time and never seem to find hands or poistions everyone else keep talking about to keep my stack in place If you look at the bit in bold you can see why I said your thoughts and your actions conflict with each other. You said: Quote 3b AJ pre from bb as i am ahead of most peoples range if i get 4b i can get awa losing the minium to better hands without folding to worse But above you say you're calling off with ATs? Which one is it. FWIW calling a 4bet or a 4 bet shove with AT or AJ is super spewy in micro donkaments. Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:40:24 PM ok he folded i took pot just wondered if he called with worse and if my bet was a value bet
i thought at time i might of been better check calling/jamming (to please pheno) but went for the value bet idea it failed Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:44:31 PM 3b folding all my 3b bluffs 3b calling 77+ ATs+ possible KQs but i am a luck box that need to get these type hands to win pots when i get them as i am card dead for most of the time and never seem to find hands or poistions everyone else keep talking about to keep my stack in place If you look at the bit in bold you can see why I said your thoughts and your actions conflict with each other. You said: Quote 3b AJ pre from bb as i am ahead of most peoples range if i get 4b i can get awa losing the minium to better hands without folding to worse But above you say you're calling off with ATs? Which one is it. FWIW calling a 4bet or a 4 bet shove with AT or AJ is super spewy in micro donkaments. i've found that when i defend out of blinds i get 4b shoved by Ax and small pairs and Kx enough to make these spews profitable again i play tighter when my seat in comp is at risk but in this spot i would be left with an average stack Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 08:45:47 PM but in saying all that i used to be a rock but have widen my game up now maybe a little too much which is why i post so my line check posts
Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Solaris on June 06, 2011, 09:06:12 PM but in saying all that i used to be a rock but have widen my game up now maybe a little too much which is why i post so my line check posts It's fair enough widening up your game, but 3betting AJo OOP is going to get you in a lot of horrible spots. Let's forget for a second you're playing a micro donkament, if you think you're ahead vs most players there's nothing wrong with flatting in this spot. By 3betting vs a good player when he's nearly 40bb deep he can 4bet shove almost ATC which causes you to think FML can I really call off here? Or he can flat and see an ace high board and get very aggro in a pot we've unnecessarily inflated pre. Flatting the flop is just bad imo too. If the turn comes a Q or K you're going to hate it. He's already stuck 45% of his stack in, so cram it in his face. Better yet if you want to flat, just check the turn, it's the way ahead/way behind scenario in that spot as he almost never calls with worse and we can get him to bluff shove the turn and snap it off. I'm also very surprised you think micro donkament players are 4bet shoving light. I've rarely experienced that. Infact, I tend to find that 99% of the field are so incapable of balancing their ranges that most 3 bets are almost exclusively only with their big hands so 4betting tends only to be the top 10% of hands. Title: Re: Ajo in bb v random Post by: Ironside on June 06, 2011, 09:10:55 PM but in saying all that i used to be a rock but have widen my game up now maybe a little too much which is why i post so my line check posts It's fair enough widening up your game, but 3betting AJo OOP is going to get you in a lot of horrible spots. Let's forget for a second you're playing a micro donkament, if you think you're ahead vs most players there's nothing wrong with flatting in this spot. By 3betting vs a good player when he's nearly 40bb deep he can 4bet shove almost ATC which causes you to think FML can I really call off here? Or he can flat and see an ace high board and get very aggro in a pot we've unnecessarily inflated pre. Flatting the flop is just bad imo too. If the turn comes a Q or K you're going to hate it. He's already stuck 45% of his stack in, so cram it in his face. Better yet if you want to flat, just check the turn, it's the way ahead/way behind scenario in that spot as he almost never calls with worse and we can get him to bluff shove the turn and snap it off. I'm also very surprised you think micro donkament players are 4bet shoving light. I've rarely experienced that. Infact, I tend to find that 99% of the field are so incapable of balancing their ranges that most 3 bets are almost exclusively only with their big hands so 4betting tends only to be the top 10% of hands. i only ever play mirco comps and alot of the time they see late posistion a hand better than average q9 and cant fold it as they have poistion and they think they have a right to the pot |