blonde poker forum

£20 comp at Sheffield G (casinoments). It's a £20 freeze with a £20 add-on, (7+7). We're in for the full 14k and have 20k at 100/200.

Villain limps UTG playing 14k (hasn't added on), 5 more limpers (lol casinos). We check the BB with Q3ss.

Flop 9s Ts 2c. Pot 1200

Sb checks to us, we check. Villain bets 200, everyone calls. We flat?*

Turn Jh (pot 2400)

Sb checks, we check, villain checks, rest check

River 8s (pot 2400)

Check, we lead 1175, villain snap jams 13k more. Random calls all in for a bowl. We?


Initial instinct was to fold. Is this ever that bad? Was thinking of check raising the flop, but didn't want to bloat the pot OOP when I know we never take it down. Would jam turn if villain isn't the flop aggressor as everyone else is playing 2-7k, but didn't know how strong he was.

Thoughts on line? B/F or B/C river?

bet more on river, fold to shove.

c/r flop would have been awful. I would be donking the turn a large % of the time to build the pot. Never ceases to amaze me how everyone will call a flop bet then it checks round on the turn.

Villains line is so utterly retarded I'm leaning towards a call. Does he ever shove with the nuts in this spot? I'm struggling to give him a hand range that beats us. He could often turn up with worse flushes and occasionally KQ if he's retarded which is why I think it's a call. Obv your not getting the odds to call but I call it off anyway and just sigh muck if he actually does have us beat.

I do think this is a super read dependent hand however.

No reads really. I asked him if he'd had the addon and he said no which I think means he may shove a little wider.

What range do we give villain limping UTG? Suited connectors? Suited Ax? Suited cards?

Wouldn't a smaller bet be better ad we can potentially can get called in more than 1 spot?

It's live, he has an absolute clusterfuck of a range hands. Agree not to c/r the flop.

As played not folding ever.

Was trying to come to a sensible/rational decision but lol live opponent means you can't.

perhaps i was being majorly results orientated when i said to you it's a fold. having said that, even the dumbest of live opponents dont snap shove a straight here in a multiway pot oop when the flush gets there. his limping ftg range here is mostly suited aces, suited kings perhaps. the flushes we beat are stuff like 75ss 46ss which ya he'd probs limp but dunno about snapshove. probs just a cooler.   

Yes they do.

It's a 20 quid comp, they shove all sorts of crap on the river.

He never has straight. He has a flush. Question is whether we beat his frush. We probably don't but I still call innit

Lol some of the people that play these comps are so bad they would happily shove j8 here. U kinda need a read on what he looks like too imo. how he handles chips, protects his cards etc are all kinda useful

They never fold J8 but in these kinda comps they don't shove J8

Wrong.

Some do.

Youngish guy who seemed to know everyone. Riffling chips. I'd literally been at the table 1 hand after a table break so no notes. I think the fact he's leading 200 on a pretty wet board 6 ways shows he isn't a great player

Folding is bad IMO
20£ comP with 3 rd nuts is good enough to be calling here
Open shover has a pretty big value jam range That we beat

Play cash in casinos also mtts are painful for smallish amount of money for first

I agree with the chap who described villain's range as an absolute clusterfuck. Therefore call. Extra confidence from the fact villain snap jams. Having made the effort to go all the way to the casino villain would rub his chin in thought and sigh jam if he had the nuts. Especially with multiple players behind.

Agreed. Would expect to see KQ shoved a lot. You'll be amazed at how many players disregard a flush on a 4 straight board and think they're going for value from a lesser straight etc.

This is a live 20 quid donkament, people do silly things.

If we're discussing your average player most don't.

you were implying all dont.

I'm saying vast majority don't. I mean I'm sure in every example on PHA where there's a particular type of player who would play a hand in such an outlandish way that you can justify any course of action

Your typical 20 pound player is always scared someone is "flushing" on this type of flop so now way do they just jam here without one.

+1

If he's a reg then he's not, hence why I asked how he handled chips etc. If he's not a reg, he absolutely shoves it.

Cos are you really saying that even someone who doesn't play often over values 2 pair on this kind of board?

For those of you who think he is only ever shoving a flush, is he shoving all flushes or are you putting him solely on the K or A high flush?

Nope he's also shoving worse flushes which is why a call or a fold is fine. This is where the things Costas was talking about come into play a little more.

YES!!!!

I go to a game once every month or two that raises money for a football team and the players that play there ALL do this kind of stuff.

loving the term clusterfuck. will use it in future blog posts me thinks, ty

given the action and the fact we have no notes on the villain and i've just turned up at the table means i can't find a fold here.

CALL

I agree with Cos here 100% here JK. This situation is very player dependant. Just as you know certain Dtd players play one way then certain other players play the complete opposite. If the guy is a reg in Sheffield then the more experienced players who know one another know exactly whAt to do in this position. You can narrow it down as far as never ever bluffs for some guys and for others will shove if bluffing or bets a portion of his stack if he has it. The STD is really that bad.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought it was a fistpump snap spot, just a cooler really, but talked it over with Alex and convinced myself he had alot smaller value range. I should be a pro at hand range assignment in casinos seen as deal in one every day, think I just levelled myself afterwards.

FWIW, he had 6s7s for the bottom end of the SF. Sigh. Would prolly still play the hand exactly the same again.

actually makes it more of a fold

i'd lead the flop, rest is fine if u folded (i'd bet bigger on the river)

lol rubz

bare in mind that K and A high flushes are very considerably more likely than some random small sc/one gapper.  Didn't actually see there was a page 2 before I posted lol

folding has the potential to be a much much bigger mistake than calling so id prolly just flick it in unless I had a live soul read.

you will get shown the nutterballs a lot though

c/c flop and turn would be the nut line, although I think the turn donk has a LOT of merit

Was my thought too