blonde poker forum

Ok this is a shorter one but the hand is a lot diffrent to the KQh on the Q hi flop with 2 hearts situation.

This is hand 2 of a ladbrokes $25 freezeout, all the chip stacks are 1500.



FlushyP4C posted the small blind - $10.00

Norfolkman posted the big blind - $20.00

** Dealing card to FlushyP4C: Jack of Clubs, Jack of Diamonds

MARTINUS folded
legin1961 folded
pirate_001 raised - $160.00
spear999 folded
RhinoNeil1 folded
lakris112 folded
Black-Pagan folded
slamer folded

Now its up to us in the small blind. A 160 raise is rather large on 10-20 blinds, what do we put the raiser on and what do we do?

call and see the flop

An EP raise of so much says medium pair to me so you could either fold here (which i would with these blinds) or call and count an A or K as top pair and bet him off on the flop.

Fold in case he has a medium pair?

Sounds a bit crazy.

Flat call, assess on the flop.

Do not pass tho. This early in the tournament is where the poor players lurk. Hunt down their chips and get them in your stack. A premium  hand like JJ is a good one to do this.

It might be difficult to play out of position, but u are not committed to it. If he has 88 99 TT and a low flop comes u may stack him. If overcards come, you can reassess but you might still be able to extract some value from weaker hands that are behind by hiding your strength till later streets.

errr misread flushy's post thought his holding was JQoff . A flat call here i think . i dont want to raise and give him the chance to come over the top so take a flop.

FlushyP4C called - $160.00

Norfolkman called - $160.00



** Dealing the flop: 8s 9d Kh



Now what have we gotten into!!

480 pot its us to speak

You have to bet to represent the King and gain information about his hand , no need to go crazy a probe of $220 should define his hand and make the rest of the hand straightforward. (ish)

i would be pretty confident of being in front.........check raise for me

What range do you have him on at this point ?

It's unfortunate u picked up a 3rd caller from the BB.

OOP with this, I would check to observe how much the others like the flop. If the original raiser leads weakly and u sense he may have missed, then i would check/call and lead a blank turn. This way u can keep the pot smaller than if u check raise, as u are relatively unsure where u are. If the BB bets out, I would fold as he is showing strength against the preflop riaser out of position and i would credit him with a King. If the preflop riaser makes a big bet on the flop, leave it son.

oooooooops  didnt notice big blind had called as well.....i would check

FlushyP4C checked

Norfolkman bet - $200.00
pirate_001 called - $200.00

Now what? My person opinion is that the BB would check a King to see what the button would do considering i had flat called, i am thinking A9

i put pirate on AQ and the bb on 10 J.

I probably would have gone all in pre flop just to get it over with as i can't win anything anyway.

Ok.

The pot is 480 and the BB has led for half the pot. This is either a King bet, a possible A9 bet, although i dont think this is massively likely, or a draw semi bluff such as TJ 67 sooted.

Original raiser flat calls. Interesting, could be slowplaying AK, deciding to commit on the turn, maybe he has KK AA and again is deciding to get more chips in on the turn or river. Maybe he has a hand like AQ AJ and is chasing. Maybe he has a set. His range is still fairly wide i think.


OK what's the options.

1) Flat call.

Don't like it. You are getting sucked into playing a big pot with an underpair out of position to 2 players who have shown some strength on the flop. Additionally there are qutie a few cards that could hurt you on the turn, but you won't know very accurately which ones. Being out of position exacerbates this problem.

2) Check Reraise.

By doing this the pot is now getting very big. Effectiveky u are committing yourself to this hand. You coudl decide to do something like check riase to 600-750 then fold to any reraise, ot hopefully take the pot down. It's a risky manouevre.

 I don't think this is a great idea as you dont really have enough information and u dont have a very strong hand(now).

3) Fold.

You are in a fairly uncertain position vs 2 players who have shown some strength on a flop wiht an overcard to your pair. I think u should fold.

Interesting to see how other players see this.

I think you should fold here. I think you should have reraised before the flop or let it go. Now it is very difficult to put the players on hands. The bb's bet looks weak so he is either scared or very strong IMO. Its concievable that he called with a weak king from the bb preflop and he may have two pair or be worried that he is out kicked.

Flushy's play makes me think that he has a made hand, i am assuming that the quality of play at $25 is good and so he wouldn't be raising from that position with a connector. If he had a draw he is risking the check-raise from you so i think he is checking to encourage callers which makes think he's got trip 8 or 9's. Still, it impossible to tell what goes through some peoples minds and he may be checking hoping for you call to give him pot odds for a draw.

I think you don't have much info about the players, a big reraise is a dangerous gamble so i would lay it down here.

Seriously i don't put utg on A9.. why such a big raise pre flop?
I think BB is trying to see a cheap turn and reckons he will find out pretty quickly if original raiser has the KK AA or AK he is representing pre flop, and if he has one of these he might get cheeky and slow play thus giving good odds for the draw to hand like 10 J, 67.

I don't think BB can flat call a big hand pre flop to play a 3 way pot.

So i still reckon pirate has missed the flop and the bb has a draw.

Either way i would get out as the pot is going to be to big if you flat call for you to be able to take it without putting in a huge bet, and i don't think you want to take a pop at it here.

Great stuff guys, some of you are putting a lot of work into the reasoning, i will save mine till after the hand.



FlushyP4C called - $200.00

** Dealing the turn: Js

Ok so i called and i have hit my miracle. However if i was right in my thoughhts that the raiser had missed and the BB had bet a weak holding, how should i go about playing the hand?

its unlikely this card helps anyone but you.

Great you have mvoed into pole position.

pot is now 1080, board is showing 89KJ.

It's not massively likely that either hand, having not improved will use this card to make a bluff at, so i think you should simply go about charging str8 draws incorrect prices as the pot is already at a ncie size.

I would bet 600 or so, realtively happy with either a fold or a call and committing a King who by calling 600 is really calling your last 500 odd chips on the river too.

If you are totally confident that you have the best hand you should check, the utg raiser will go for it i reckon if it gets checked to him.
Strong chance that the bb may have another pop and you can come over the top. either way you get to stick all your chips in.
Surely this is favourite as someone must have at least a draw on now and the big pot will look tempting for a semi bluff.

If they all check then barring a 10 or Q on the river you will be able to get your chips in then with the same confidence..

I would lead out with about half the pot which i think make it about 500 or 600. My reasoning is that i think this is just about small enough to get marginal holdings to consider a call while still extracting money and given them poor odds for any draw they are on. It also asks them to define their hands if our ep really does have a strong holding he might well raise (has he been silly enough to trap with ak or aa). It also makes the bb make a decision as he was mainly focusing on the ep probably and your bet will put him to a decision.
If the river comes with q or 10 on it you aren't going to like it.

Btw i agree with flushy i think bb prob has something like a9 or a weak(ish) king. The ep i really am struggle with lets hope he has 8's or 9's he he.

FlushyP4C checked

Norfolkman bet - $20.00

pirate_001 went all-in - $1140.00

FlushyP4C went all-in - $1120.00

Norfolkman folded

pirate_001 shows......

Anyone guess the hand?

P.S. Not you jungle!

AQ or something really stupid like 77.

i change my mind.... 10 10

I was supposed to post this before royal flush's last post.

The bb's weak bet on the flop makes me think that he won't bet again so a check raise is out (not sure about flushy) i would bet around the pot here. I would expect the bb to call or fold and flushy to flat call. You are definitely ahead at this point but i am worried that the bb has something like K-10 and it is possible flushy made that big raise with 10-10. There is 1080 in the pot, i would take it down now.

I think in light of your last post it was something stupid like J-10

He had AQ.

As it happens he hit a Ten on the river, but i think i played the hand really badly.

Pre flop i put the guy on AK/AQ TT something like that, i dont really want to push in when i am so sure about someone's holding, i rather play them down the streets. The BB calling was a big downside, but it was not expected.

On the flop i like checking in these spots and seeing if i can evaluate whats going on, it also makes me harder to read. When the BB has led out and the Button has called i think its a clear fold. I made a poor call and got lucky, i then continued to play the hand poorly by checking, which i got lucky with again, sadly i got outdrawn but i should never have been there.

I think you played it right at the turn, i want to let him bluff at the pot because i reckon he will do it with all his chips. But then again i bust out of a lot of tournaments to outdraws like this so maybe i should re think.

By leading on the turn i might suck them both in, if i am left to check raise the player in LP i lose the BB.

I would have bet out on the flop and out again on the turn. I prefer to make people fold and not show my cards.

The bet on the flop defines my hand and the turn bet would have been a value bet. I think the check raise was risky because it could have been checked all the way around although in this case you should have scooped yourself a nice pot.

I have to admit, i often seem to have trouble making money on my good hands.

Cousin Merve, is that you?!?!?!?!?!

Depends how much you lead with, the bb is not calling anything above 150 i don't think.

The utg is nuts but he probably lays it down to a solid bet.

If you bet 500 i think you lose them both and take the pot which in hindsight would be preferable to losing your stack.

If you do bet 150 i think you get an extra call from the bb but the utg may well not make his big semi bluff. Then you have to lay it down on the river to his all in.

I find making the pot big enough to encourage someone to have a big bet at it when i am holding a monster is a very good way to accumulate a big stack early on.

But as i said i lose fairly often to sick draws early on, so it may well not be the best strategy.

I feel the same a2m, problem is i think its a stupid bluff for him to make, i wasnt expecing a bluff!

but you see it constantly in the first level of tourneys. Massive positional overbets with very skinny semi bluffs, i sometimes call with very average hands and hope they miss. Although this gives them a few more outs usually and they seem to hit far more often than they should.

Lol, sorry to disappoint, but no.


Definitely in the second case but maybe not in the first you are likely to face him reraising you all in. He will believe that there is a strong chance you will fold and he is definitely nuts. I agree, it does build a big pot but then you are also busted.

So why do it? Why take the chance with a marginal hand when you know that there will be a better opportunity just around the corner. If its obvious that a certain player is just leaking chips here there and everywhere you know you'll get them eventually if you are patient enough.The number of times i've seen bad players doubled up by good players who try this with marginal hands when they should know better. (not that i ever complain as it gives the bad player who is an easier target more chips and cripples the good player so that they are no longer a danger)

Ahh sorry, there is a player on pokerstars who uses the same avatar as you are using on here - i call him Cousin Merve, just checking :)

I had it first :D

I just can't help myself sometimes, i know they have nothing and just to prove this i call.

I often manage to put them on exact hands but i should probably be considering my tournament life more than wanting to make monkeys of them.

One day i shall swing through the trees like a proper player.