blonde poker forum

First orbit of Day 2. New faces, no history with anyone, so I'll include all info gathered in the first orbit.

We start with exactly 20bigs. which is 48k @ 1200/2400. Avg stack 70k. 68 left, 36 paid.

I fold 3 hands in middle position, one of which villain raises bvb and takes it down. Villain is young, handles chips confidently and looks comfortable and confident. Playing 90k.

Then get dealt  Ac Qs UTG and make it 5k. Villian 3bets to 15200 from middle position. I folded.

Next hand, I'm in the bb for 2400, and have 40k back. which = 16.6 big blinds.

UTG+1 opens for 5100, has raised 7k before and folded to a 27k shove. Villain 3bets again to 15500.

We do a little sick as we squeeze  Jd Jh in the big blind. I shoved. Would've folded TT and AQss. Thoughts on everything please. Tell me also if I'm being results orientated because I suspect I am.

Totally results orientated. Not sure tens or AQ are folds in this spot either. Nor am I sure of your open with AQ and fold to his 3 bet.

Then again I never fold so probs best asking someone else

unusual that he 3bets so big.

JAM JJ for sure, the AQo looks like a good fold to me

Yes you're being results oriented

so do we think it likely that villain is 3betting EP opens 2 hands on the trot without a strong holding?

i kno online this is totally banal, but live i cant help thinking that this guy wont be light here ever. maybe TT, maybe AQ probs just flats even those, but cant see him showing up with worse often...

[  ] folding JJ here

I'm shocked you raised/folded AQ with 20bbs. That's made my head explode.

Maybe he knows the table knows he can never be light here so cos he knows this he 3 bets 54 off.

Seriously tho Alex, you have a Jack and a Jack with 16 bigs. What more do you want?

Not raise folding 20bigs very often ofc, but this spot seemed fine live.

Villain seemed good enough to know that my range in that spot is super strong. I would've folded AJ and 88. So can't see him 3betting light enough to make 4b shoving AQo here profitable.

Queen and Queen, King and King, Ace and Ace or Ace and King?

But Q and a Q loses. So add that to your folding range in this spot in future ;). And no point in calling for a chop with KK in case ep has AA

wat

He has 4 hand combo's that have you in trouble. That's it.

You have AQo vs a young, competent player who 3 betting range is going to be wider than most live players so raise/f AQo is terrible imo.

I might be wrong, but I'd be amazed if people think that play is standard.

Don't think AQ is a snap here. What Alex is saying is that because villian is decent he knows Alex's range is narrow here. I reckon most of the time we're flipping in this spot.

I think villain is unlikely to be 3 betting light here so I'm pretty scared!

Whilst he's UTG, Alex's range should be any pair (assuming he doesn't limp), A10s+, KQs (maybe?). It's perfectly legitimate for villain to be 3 betting 88+ AJs+ looking to get it in to win a flip. If he's remotely decent, he's not going to be flatting pairs to someone with Alex's stack size as it's virtually impossible to play the hand post-flop.

we don't know he is competant tbf. if he makes it 10,400 id snap stick it in his eye but the 3x 3bet makes it a decent fold imo

you might burn a bit of equity but it just can't be terrible to fold there

Not sure Alex's range is that wide with 20 bigs. could be wrong tho.

Perhaps 3x is his standard raise size? He makes it the same size in both hands.

The JJ is a fold imo, think the AQ is a shove too. So, for me, [ ] wp alex. BUT these aren't huge errors (if they are errors) so wp to get that far and gg ul, win it next month I reckon.

As said on the phone, AQ hand is ew, I prolly open jam and try and get hero'd by worse or flip vs pairs. Stops us getting in the raise fold situ. Though may still get it in, but I'm a spaz.

I do agree the JJ is a puke spot, but I'm just never folding with 15 bigs behind...

Certainly not, folding 88> and AJ


sigh :(

yh, but as the AQo hand is the first time id seen him do it id be very concerned (AK would be my primary worry)

dislike his 3bet sizing in the first hand regardless of holding

yeah same ^^ altho ivey 3 bets to 3.5x so who knows

I think the 3bet sizing and timing etc makes the JJ more of a fold. thought process being, bad sizing -> fish -> 3betting tight -> not 3betting two hands on the trot with <JJ

anyone else like an open jam with the AQ?

Just think raise/folding with AQ there is bad whatever way you look at it. We are flipping a lot of the time and ahead very rarely and are only behind to 4 combo's. This is live poker too, he doesn't necessarily be aware of stack sizes, players raising positions etc so could be raising wider than you think.

I think the JJ hand is actually pretty close and I'm leaning towards a fold. It's pretty sick to have be folding JJ with 16bbs but for the reasons mentioned (he's 3betting 2 hands in a row and is 3 betting a utg open etc) I'd find it a lot easier to fold JJ in that spot than I do AQo in the other spot.

FWIW I understand why you folded the AQo, but I think you're giving too much credit to an unknown personally.


Online yes, live no.

Is there an ante?  Its a lot closer if there is, def not with no ante imo

i think raise/calling >>>> open jamming

very surprised with the AQ, im never open /folding in that spot

shoving 20 bbs is +ev (although live i dont like it), so im raise calling

JJ - couldnt bring myself to fold that in this spot to someone so active

JJ easy shove.

The AQ hand.

In my little world, against an unknown, with his bet size, I'm flatting pre, then shoving the flop after a few seconds. Ta

Not folding JJ with 16 bigs ever, I don't think. If they've got QQ+, it's just too bad.

i think the JJ is a clear fold here Alex and i have a sneaky feeling you may do too or you may not have posted this. maybe you picked up on something else (using your spidey senses rather than caro's tells) but the 3x 3bet just screams i got the goods and wanna play a big pot (by some one who is not a good player as you suspect). its an easy fold for me if i am honest but then i dont show the fold face up or post the hand for people ridicule me. hero folds get you deeper in tornies than hero calls do imo.

The AQ hand is a different kettle of fish and i probably play this for a number of implied reasons but cant say for fear of being lol'd at.

good run this month.

No way am I passing JJ in this spot.  Although I wouldnt' have been in this spot as I'd have called off with AQ in the previous hand against young suspicious internet youngster.

If it aids the debate, this is the villain in question......

He's Italian? Both are a fist pump :D

but looks how young and scared he looks!

He looks a lot older than you do.

oww.......eye........jammed......... ;grr;

I like to think I'd find a fold with the JJ given the circumstances you describe. It would very much come down to my gut feeling at the time.

I don't think I can pass the AQ hand earlier though. There's not a lot crushing AQ.

How far off the money were you at the time? Is villain exploiting the bubble?

I think the AQ is fine, antes do make a difference if it makes our stack less than 12bbs adjusted then go ahead and jam it. If villain is comptent then he really shouldn't 3betting anything we beat as our range should be tight and we should be rarely raise/folding. Opening all pairs is a leak here, unless the table is very passive imo.

The JJ looks real close to me, I think qq and 1010 are pretty clear. Not going to be a big mistake either way long term.

68left, 36 paid. So no.

yes antes of course in play. 1200/2400 with 300

I do a jam pre then with your stack.

Found villain on facebook and he told me he had AK suited the first hand.

in b4 loser rubs

I think you definitely should have folded because I know what happened and I'm speaking with hindsight.  ;D

ok fair enough!

Doom switch well and truly enabled.

booom

Yeh cos I never lie to people when they ask me what I had

To a random person I'd never seen before, never likely to again and after the event, I see no reason at all to lie.

Until the next deepstack

it just clicked....sick brag in the title lol. what you gonna be like with a min cash ;)

not folding either hand, think JJ is closer than the AQ. ofc raise/calling is gonna be better than open jamming 20 bigs, we let him bluff a % of the time!

exactly this (think i just about fold the JJ, but depends completely on gut at the time)