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Title: What do we do here? Post by: Amatay on July 13, 2011, 05:15:18 AM Dunno if i am overthinking this or not. 40 left in a $30 2r1a top 36 pay and im about 5th in chips. Do we just jam and close our eyes yeh or is it a ghey fold? Can either of these two be trapping here ever? utg is irrelent because he has 3 bigs. He moves allin and 1 player 3bets and the other cold calls. Dunno if they are good or not but not seen them do anything too dumb. Should i be concerned? I cant raise fold and raise calling a 5b shove is not ideal imo. Also sometimes certain 'idiots' flat my 4b and then ill have to take a flop oop in an inflated pot and be hating life, so just jam? Can i flat and take a flop oop 3 ways with the shortie allin and somehow get to showdown or do i get it in pre?
PokerStars Game #64489440177: Tournament #429010722, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (625/1250) - 2011/07/13 2:16:34 WET [2011/07/12 21:16:34 ET] Table '429010722 3' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: MrKlout (3929 in chips) Seat 2: nobbit (46166 in chips) Seat 3: Sleepzor (25889 in chips) Seat 4: XdobrationX (45289 in chips) Seat 5: kolan67 (44670 in chips) Seat 6: stelstelstel (56526 in chips) Seat 7: fisherist (6512 in chips) Seat 8: porkiepie1 (17268 in chips) Seat 9: simonjjj (65736 in chips) MrKlout: posts the ante 150 nobbit: posts the ante 150 Sleepzor: posts the ante 150 XdobrationX: posts the ante 150 kolan67: posts the ante 150 stelstelstel: posts the ante 150 fisherist: posts the ante 150 porkiepie1: posts the ante 150 simonjjj: posts the ante 150 porkiepie1: posts small blind 625 simonjjj: posts big blind 1250 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to simonjjj [Jc Js] MrKlout: raises 2500 to 3750 nobbit: folds Sleepzor: folds XdobrationX: raises 2500 to 6250 kolan67: folds stelstelstel: calls 6250 fisherist: folds porkiepie1: folds simonjjj: ? Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: muckthenuts on July 13, 2011, 06:29:11 AM In it goes
Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: boldie on July 13, 2011, 09:35:01 AM Jesus, very tricky spot this.
I prob flat this TBH. Can't see raise/folding as an option, Raise/calling a 5bet also seems like a bad idea and folding seems very weak. Yuck. Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: George2Loose on July 13, 2011, 10:03:07 AM Easiest jam ever
Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: T_Mar on July 13, 2011, 10:26:54 AM What hands fold to Jam that you dont really want to be all in against? AQ maybe... 4bet/call for me
Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: outragous76 on July 13, 2011, 10:28:42 AM easy fold - tell yourself it was J2
Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: pleno1 on July 13, 2011, 11:07:58 AM Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: George2Loose on July 13, 2011, 11:17:03 AM I see so many thin iso plays. Guy who mins it probs has Ax, KQ, mid pairs so often. Cold caller probs similar range. Maybe 4 bet calling is better than jamming. Reads obv come into it too but readless Im getting my chips in Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: Pinchop73 on July 13, 2011, 11:25:16 AM Pretty lol. Played with MrKlout a fair bit in the stars deepstack Monday night. He had a decent score on Sunday.
Anyways...Without more info, I'm shipping this. It's a tricky spot though. What stats do we have on villains? Original 3bettor could be isolating pretty wide here. Flatter mighten be strong either. Could just be wanting to see an A high flop. If they have QQ+ then gg, but I'm shipping this as its already a decent pot to take down with Jacks. Could easily look very squeezy and might get a call from AJ AQ 88 99 TT. Happy to race against AK too for a 100+bb pot this deep, gives us a huge chance of FT'ing. Never flatting as that would be spew oop. Very awkward stack sizes to 4b anything other than all in imo. Just my opinion. Ta Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: outragous76 on July 13, 2011, 11:38:24 AM I see so many thin iso plays. Guy who mins it probs has Ax, KQ, mid pairs so often. Cold caller probs similar range. Maybe 4 bet calling is better than jamming. Reads obv come into it too but readless Im getting my chips in ignore the shorty he is irrelevant - but there is a flatter too Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: Pharo on July 13, 2011, 02:01:26 PM All In imo. Without any reads I am not going to worry about either the iso raiser or the caller having a super tight range. It is more likely that the iso-raiser just has some kind of top 10-15% hand and even though it's possible the caller could be on AA or KK I'm not going to jump to that conclusion when he could have a smaller pair, AK-AT, KQ or just be a fish calling much too wide. I really hate flatting OOP and letting two people with worse hands try to out flop you or outplay you when the pot is already this big. Obv never 4-bet folding so I would just jam.
That being said, I actually played with XdobrationX recently and he was very aggressive, making this an even easier shove since I am totally not worried about him having a strong hand here. Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: George2Loose on July 13, 2011, 02:35:49 PM I see so many thin iso plays. Guy who mins it probs has Ax, KQ, mid pairs so often. Cold caller probs similar range. Maybe 4 bet calling is better than jamming. Reads obv come into it too but readless Im getting my chips in ignore the shorty he is irrelevant - but there is a flatter too Shorty is hugely relevant in this spot Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: outragous76 on July 13, 2011, 03:07:56 PM I see so many thin iso plays. Guy who mins it probs has Ax, KQ, mid pairs so often. Cold caller probs similar range. Maybe 4 bet calling is better than jamming. Reads obv come into it too but readless Im getting my chips in ignore the shorty he is irrelevant - but there is a flatter too Shorty is hugely relevant in this spot i meant his holding isnt - with the exception of any AKQ he might hold but there is no meaninful way of narrowing his range Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: Amatay on July 13, 2011, 03:28:39 PM Ok, cheers for responses, lets throw in two more scenario's...
A. What if the utg opener is the chip leader, whats our line then with JJ given that a player has 3b in mp and another player has flated? B. Whats our line in the original hand but we have a slightly weaker hand than JJ? Maybe 99-1010 or an AQ for example, what then? Do we auto get it in with AK? Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: boldie on July 13, 2011, 03:35:42 PM Fold in both cases for me.
AK, I'd get it in in the original hand Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: MANTIS01 on July 13, 2011, 07:27:18 PM The ss dynamic suggests the raiser can click back wide here, so the cold caller's range for getting involved can widen cos there's value in playing the pot. If the cold caller is playing premium to trap I think he's making a mistake because in this spot he's creating even more value for players behind. By the the time it gets round to me in the bb I'm getting min 4-1+ good implied to justify shitty calls with many hands that will gg kings in a second. That is a lot of fun. So ultra risky strat for premium to take just four from money imo. So unless blinds have been proper aggro the cold caller can't have a notion calling is better than raising to try and get the chips in good. I would choose the close eyes and shove option because we get business from worse pairs who wont be bullied and peg us for AK more often than either has a monster. If I hadn't cashed in a while I would prob fold which is wrong and feels ghey.
Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: outragous76 on July 13, 2011, 08:16:31 PM The ss dynamic suggests the raiser can click back wide here, so the cold caller's range for getting involved can widen cos there's value in playing the pot. If the cold caller is playing premium to trap I think he's making a mistake because in this spot he's creating even more value for players behind. By the the time it gets round to me in the bb I'm getting min 4-1+ good implied to justify shitty calls with many hands that will gg kings in a second. That is a lot of fun. So ultra risky strat for premium to take just four from money imo. So unless blinds have been proper aggro the cold caller can't have a notion calling is better than raising to try and get the chips in good. I would choose the close eyes and shove option because we get business from worse pairs who wont be bullied and peg us for AK more often than either has a monster. If I hadn't cashed in a while I would prob fold which is wrong and feels ghey. what worse pairs commit 50bbs? Title: Re: What do we do here? Post by: MANTIS01 on July 13, 2011, 09:25:17 PM The ss dynamic suggests the raiser can click back wide here, so the cold caller's range for getting involved can widen cos there's value in playing the pot. If the cold caller is playing premium to trap I think he's making a mistake because in this spot he's creating even more value for players behind. By the the time it gets round to me in the bb I'm getting min 4-1+ good implied to justify shitty calls with many hands that will gg kings in a second. That is a lot of fun. So ultra risky strat for premium to take just four from money imo. So unless blinds have been proper aggro the cold caller can't have a notion calling is better than raising to try and get the chips in good. I would choose the close eyes and shove option because we get business from worse pairs who wont be bullied and peg us for AK more often than either has a monster. If I hadn't cashed in a while I would prob fold which is wrong and feels ghey. what worse pairs commit 50bbs? Raiser has 30bbs left and there's 20bbs dead money in the middle when it gets back to him. So if we are pegged for AK or bubble squeeze any worse pair has good odds to call. |