blonde poker forum

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkxcBy6js7s

dirty?

Already been a thread mate, we all agreed he was a wanker.........

Haven't seen the thread, but i posted this in the TDA forum

ahhh if already been discussed/debated, mods feel free to delete thread

my bad

Love your ruling Rich. Would laugh so hard at the angleshooting prick :)

Unless you had warned him or had video evidence there is no way on this earth you would have the balls to disco' him from this tourney!

Might as well keep it up, as it was in Cos's thread and while it is hard to believe not everyone reads it, there is a small chance that is the case.

Oh yeah the guy is scum in vid imo.

Can you really D-Q him?  Obv we all hate angleshooters but is there actually a rule in place for this type of incident?  

The same TD TK has seen this himself 5 times in 2 events,  I bet ya I would have the balls to Disco him :)
Whether I should or not is the question?

Rule number 1 gives the TD power to Disco him
1. Floor People
Floor people are to consider the best interest of the game and fairness as the top priority in the decision-making process. Unusual circumstances can on occasion dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over the technical rules. The floorperson’s decision is final.

Is this not a form of speech play Rich? In that he clearly states his action and merely bullshits trying to make himself seem weaker than he is knowing that he will be forced to raise?

Has he not followed the rules and is now being deceitful?

Speech play is the argument I was faced by other TD's, imo this is his 6th attempt to twist the rules to make himself appear weak knowing that a decision would favour him. How can rules favour an angle shooter? Look at the smug scumbags eyes smiling. His action is clearly detrimental to the game and it shouldn't be tolerated. Maybe once can be seen as an accident, twice is a little suspicious ....... 6 times in a high profile televised comp just lol. How often is he allowed to do this and what are the repercussions in cardrooms all over the world. TK should have made a bigger stand and made an example of him imo.

Surely the way TK dealt with the hand was spot on. I just feel that a penalty after the hand should have been implemented. Maybe a ten minute suspension or similar.

As I said in the other thread, guy has form for doing this. He did it to Eames in Copenhagen and Erik Cajelais earlier in the Grand Final.

Isn't flat calling with the nuts also subject to a penalty (potentially soft play)?

Could the TD therefore enforce the rule, as TK just did, and then penalise the guy for trying to flat call with the nuts as his stated intention?

Thought TK handled it excellently by warning the opponent of his previous, but there should have been some form of penalty to follow.

Missed the previous discussion on this, so it's interesting to have seen it.

It is not technically the nuts though is it, kk and 66 are potentially ahead.

Would have been incred if the other guy had 66, which would have been possible the way the hand was played.

Where is other thread? Pretty sick antics

heard kremser been a naughty boy also

;popcorn;

This would not have happened if the real Tikay had been in charge. The guy would have been put in a head lock given a monkey scrub and then a Chinese burn.

What's he been upto Trigg. You can't just come on here and say stuff like that ;)

Trigg slowrolling his gossip - worse than angle-shooting.

I played in the £150 at DTD on Sunday and there was a hand just before the break when a friend of mine for many years shoved allin on the river and his oppo went into the tank for a considerable time. Eventually my friend said to him "You are losing, I have the best hand here and I'll show you if you fold".

The guy did fold and my friend showed him a complete bag of bollx which I thought was pretty funny and clever use of speech-play at the time, but having thought about it I'm not as sure now whether it's okay to do that or not.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01694/skim_1694576c.jpg)

The no speech play defo took something away from the wsop this year. I love to hear speech play but where you draw the line is subjective. I love to see it when I am not in the hand but it pisses me off if someone does it to me

I don't mind this at all. Seems like standard speech play to me and is a legit part of the game imo.

Even though i feel dirty watching this clip, i think it is down to the rule makers to be more strict, to stop it happening. If he knew he would get booted for it then he would never try it. I actually think it is quite clever. Dirty, but clever and it clearly works.

As herb says, nice to watch but not nice to be subjected to.

Didn't see this at the time. Complete filth.

This guy had a large rail iirc and was some sort of hero in a military coup. Meant to be good friends with el presidenty but I have no idea if he is on the good side or bad side. My mate made the last two tables and played a lot with him and said he was a horrible piece of work so that's near enough for me.

This is where dealers play an important role imo. They alone should be allowed to decide what goes OTT and then punishments can be handed out from there.

As for the subject matter, it's utterly disgusting. I don't get how he calls though as Kremser basically tells him unless you have the nuts, fold.

there isn't another thread I don't think, just a few comments on some diary or other, cos's probs

which btw is something I really hate about diaries on here. instead of starting a new thread which everyone will see people post stuff like this on their own thread even though it has nothing to do with them so only the 8 people who read their diary end up reading it and the topic gets lost rather than being discussed. I'm sure I miss out on loads of stuff on the many diaries that I never open

yes people should only post things that are directly to do with them on their diaries. tool.

you'd struggle to find 8 people that read greekstein's diary any more ;)

that's better. aggro is much better with a public airing, everyone would've missed it if you'd called me a tool on your diary

xx

You wouldn't of though, seeing as 2 of the last 7 posts on there are yours.

obv. I'm one of your 8 readers

Im afraid to say longy, it would not have been possible.

goddam slowrollers.



Obv I am with y ou on this one Rich, imo the 'kick in the nuts' punishment should be brought into play here and executed over and over!

I just wasn't sure how I felt with TK being willing to explain that the guy was trying an angle when he at the same time wasn't confident enough/willing to go through with punishing him in whatever way he felt fit the deed.

if TK thinks that D.Q was too much then what other options under what other rules are there for him to punish the dousche with?

40. Penalties and Disqualification

A penalty MAY be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, throws a card off the table, violates the one-player-to-a-hand rule, or similar incidents take place. Penalties WILL be invoked in cases of soft play, abuse, or disruptive behavior. Penalties available to the TD include verbal warnings and “missed hand” penalties. Except for a one-hand penalty, missed hand penalties will be assessed as follows: The offender will miss one hand for every player, including the offender, who is at the table when the penalty is given multiplied by the number of rounds specified in the penalty. For the period of the penalty, the offender shall remain away from the table but will continue to be dealt in.
Tournament staff can assess a one-hand penalty, one-, two-, three-, or four-round penalties or disqualification. A player who is disqualified shall have his or her chips removed from play. Repeat infractions are subject to escalating penalties.

44. Etiquette Violations
Repeated etiquette violations will result in penalties. Examples include, but are not limited to, unnecessarily touching other players’ cards or chips, delay of the game, repeatedly acting out of turn or excessive chatter.

Rule 1 is the easiest to run with here, it is against the Spirit and fairness of the game and can be used in exceptional circumstances. But specific rules would a combination of 40 and 44, as if this isn't an etiquette issue I don't know what is.

I am gobsmacked that even a one round penalty was not enforced! It is no use a TD shaking his head thinking it was out of order, if you think it is out of order do something about it.

After the San Remo incidents he should not be allowed to play EPT's in fact I would be surprised  if he was allowed to play any competition again if the card rooms have seen this. As a player, would you like to play scum like this? It is down to TD's to protect the integrity of the game.

I wonder if he tipped well? lol

I'm not sure the offence was quite serious enough to warrant disqualification (such as collusion etc). I would at least implement a one round penalty though for a first offence. If a player was to do it again then I'd give a longer penalty and ban them from future tournaments.

This is the sixth time in 2 tourneys run by the same TD and no penalties have been given.

FWIW Matt Savage tweeted yesterday that he would have disco'd him too.

yeah but that doesn't make it a dq offence. in fact it makes it the exact opposite, by allowing him to get away with it 5 times previously tk has made it very clear that it's completely acceptable

if he did it for a 6th time having been warned/penalised on each of the previous 5 then a dq would be ok but if that was the case then I doubt he would've done it 6 times

it's just poor from tk really

Would you guys class throwing out higher denom chips out purposefully (but pretending it was accidental) angle shooting?

i.e. value betting a river for pot for 1600, but throwing out 5600. and acting like a silly noob? happen much?

Yeah i'm with gatso here. If all TK has ever done is stand there and shake his head I can't see how it should be a DQ in this instance. If he's been given multiple warnings and told if he does it again he'd be DQd then that's a different story.

There's some things I'd DQ for a first offence. This isn't one of them.

If I was TD'ing and had been called to the table 3 times in a comp and you had a very strong hand .... Yup

CF this isn't a first offence he should have had a penalty the 2nd time he did it. ( possibly a penalty from the first time he did it in Madrid, considering he did it 3 times at San Remo)

Do you think this is not a stroke?

No, but I mean in this instance if he hasn't had any prior penalties for it then to DQ is too harsh. Obviously there should have been prior penalties but I don't think there was? This is a failing on TKs part if so.

And yes, the second one is a stroke too and should be dealt with in a similar manner.

unless your DQ areguement is going to stand up in court you arent going to do it - as thats where it would end up for this kind of money

How?

lol


TDs opinion > slighted party.

That's why we pay rake, we get an unbiased set of decisions in line with the games rules and fair play rules.

That's why WSOP womens event TD was so out of line abusing the guy, and why it's incredible anyone kept playing on UB/AP etc.

If Rich says it's a d.q it's a d motherfking q!  (also Matt Savage kinda knows what he's talking about too!).

im sure the court would take that view! oh wait..........

I do agree, that for a first offence it is too strong, there may even be a case where it wasn't a clear cut as this and a penalty may be too harsh. In this particular instance and with the benefit of TV replay ( that TK could access if needed) it was the most deplorable play I have seen. The reason I enjoy my job is I love reading body language. In this case I feel he knew exactly what he was doing, it was very clear cut, his eyes were laughing and he knew how the TD must rule therefore involving the TD to his advantage . GTFO lol his arse would be out the front door without passing go.

Pmsl Mr Bean

doesn't have to stand up in court. You may not like it but if you enter a game the TD can disco anyone for anything and you have no redress, question you have to ask yourself is are you happy with the rules, venue and staff before you sit down. Rule 1 isn't used much but it clearly states the Floor decision is final, if you don't like that rule don't play live poker.

Are you intentionally being obtuse or do you really think that you are above the set of house and venue rules that you are meant to adhere to when you play in a live environment?


Are you even slightly aware of how casinos operate and how easy it is for them to ban anyone they want from their premises?

My last line is tongue in cheek, the rest is clearly not.


The first part of game selection is trusting the game you play in, then you look at your opponents....

phatomch would of dq'd him

pretty sick of threads like this cluttering up the forum, can't we keep these types of topics in diaries?

:D

Yeah, who wants this considered poker debate on a poker forum? We want more threads about pies ffs.

to be honest, i would prefer all topics to be covered in diaries. 

sicko. and it's spelt 'diarrhea'

the ft that followed this hand is on channel 4 now. lots of reference to the angle shoot

I feel sick watching it

I agree with Guy that it would be hard to defend a dq in court. Dik you're a TD right? and you're saying stuff like his laughing eyes made you sick etc. A barrister could print a thread like this and read it out in court and illustrate quite convincingly that a TD's motivation was personal and a dq was not in the interests of the game at all. Didn't TK do what's fair to the players by dishing info and history even thou he hated the situation? If you go st8 for dq without exploring other options like proper penalties or what TK did a regular judge in court will think the TD dq'd out of spite. Thus not providing the service of giving unbiased decisions the player paid his juice for.

Take me to court.

My job is to protect the integrity of the game, I would be doing the other players an injustice by allowing them to play in such a game, they have paid juice to be protected against things such as this.

As I said earlier, he most likely would have received penalties previous to this if I was TD so disqualifying would be easy to justify ( not in a court of law, but in my mind).

I have the utmost respect for Thomas Kremser, but in this instance I believe if he had been given penalties previous to this in any of the 5 times in the 2 events he TD'd we wouldn't be discussing this.

I have run competitions when looking back in hindsight, I may have given the wrong ruling, lacked a penalty or dished out a stronger penalty than I should. It plays on your mind, I chat with other TD's and sometimes I kick myself. I am sure TK is in this position now.

FWIW I have NEVER dished a penalty out over spite, or let anything personal influence ANY decision. If it was my Granny doing this she would get the same treatment.

I got blocked from Jack Eiffel's twitter account because I questioned his TD's unbiasedness at this years WSOP ladies event lol. I think it is wrong that there is a ladies event, but if there is a ladies event it should be ladies only. If the law states that men can enter then so be it. Once anyone pays to play in a tourney they should be treated exactly the same as everyone else not chastised, bullied or cheered out of a comp.

The other thing that you say regarding TK's handling of the situation IMO is wrong. It isn't just you either a lot of people had said it takes a strong TD to point out his previous offence and the results of it. All he needed to say in this situation is that he had previous for doing the same thing. Yanayt isn't thick he knew the score, in fact I think my grandson could see this coming. TK puts himself in a position by saying what he does, what if he had a really shit hand and TK has just influenced Yanayt to fold?

Will be horrified if he was allowed to play the Champion of Champions event.

dik9

The sole point you are missing here is that the preceeding incidents and the lack of action by the TD are the sole reason why this would end up in court if your Dq'ed him here in this spot (well the sums of money involved are the REASON it would end up in court, but that would be the basis).

My point, as mantis expanded upon, is that a barrister would make you look so rediculous because of that and other matters you have raised ("laughing eyes"), that you couldnt substantiate your decission.

Im not saying that if appropriate action had previously been taken that a DQ isnt relevant (i'd like to think it was, angleshootng is my pet hate), but it wasnt, and im fairly sure that this angle shooting prick took that into account as he continued to do it!

And in reality, in the real world, the TD isn't employed by the players to protect the integrity of the game. The TD is employed by the venue to run the comp smoothly. And it's the venue who would be sued. So when dik9 is standing next to his employer in court passionately defending the honour of the game his gaffer is thinking WTF is this? Why have I got a mound of litigation to wade through and possibile liabilities? Why couldn't my TD be a super smooth guy with a silk tie and a pearly smile who just glides over and irons things out with a few choice words. All this TD's word is final sounds a bit power hungry to me and a dq should be a crazy last resort that you could 100% justify to a non-poker playing courtroom should that eventuality occur. TK is the nuts and after all factors were considered his actions were the nuts so other TD's should be learning from him and his thought process really.

i watched the last madrid episode last night and he did seem to have a lot of respected poker players from latin american in his corner as friends. his bird also looked like a right dirty sort and much younger than him. thought he was a complete tosser originally but then thought about the Alex situation and thought good luck to him. He won e1.6 million and do you think he gives a toss.

i also watched somewhere lucien someone from france win an ept and  the next tourney he was a right cock.

scotty nguyen winning the $50k mixed game was a bit disgusting as well.

The thing they have in common is they are winners.

This is entirely the reason you should play in a licensed venue! You know, the kind of place that is issued a license by magistrates.
If you are trying to imply I am power mad, you would be so far from the truth. I have stated earlier on in the thread that Rule 1 is very rarely used, but it is there for situations that are not covered by the rules for the Spirit of the game and fairness. (my biggest fault is I am too opinionated  lol)

I would be more worried about my job, if I didn't act. As all the other competitors have paid to play in an environment where they are protected.

I have also stated, that I have the utmost respect for TK but think IMO he handled this one wrong (this debate is on a number of forums and I haven't heard 1 TD say that it shouldn't be a penalty/ the degree of penalties ranges from one round to Dq) I could state reasons why possibly he  didn't penalise in this spot but it wouldn't be fair because he is not reading this to answer. I am sure due to the interest in this event, someone will ask him on record.

I think it was your comment along the lines of GTFO I would bounce his arse out the door without passing go which implied there would be personal satisfaction from yourself as a TD when bumping such a player from the comp. A soon as an independent hears that is the TD's thought process it would be very hard to argue the decision was completely neutral and in the interest's of the game. It looks like you are glad to dq him and if the TD is glad the decision becomes bias imo. Comments like that made you come across a bit power hungry so sorry if you're not.

I would be satisfied a player which has used me and used the rules to back up a stroke against other players numerous times was no longer in the tournament (wouldn't you be?). This would not be personal though, friends or enemies will be treated the same at the poker table.

discussed on 2+2 pokercast this week with Matt Savage

confirmed would never DQ without prior warning except for blatant cheating