blonde poker forum

Hi der.

I played the £50 comp at Luton last Wednesday, I noted this hand in my phone at the time as I found it a difficult decision, something I rarely find myself having to make in comps like these.

Notes - Villain in this hand has been to my direct left since the start. Have never played him before at Luton nor anywhere else. Has frequently opened UTG. He's a calling station pre. Seems to flat everything when ip. Has taken down a few sizeable pots uncontested by overbetting the river. He has overbet 4 or 5 times uncontested, whether ip or oop. Hasn't raised once post flop, but overbets the river. Has accumulated lots, yet hasn't showndown once.

When I sat down initially I was stoked as I had two players I knew from playing elsewhere to my left, but I soon realised that this chap inbetween was not going to be pushed around, as I folded tptk otb to his donk river overbet.

So yeah, the hand in question...

Level 2, 50/100

Villain (playing 14kish) opens to 350.

Folds round to Hero (playing 9kish) in the SB who 3b's to 975 with  Ad Th.

Call from villain UTG.

Flop 9h Tc 7h (pot 2050)

Hero checks.
Villain checks.

Turn Td (pot 2050)
Hero bets 1300.
Villain calls.

River Js (pot 4650)

Hero checks.

Villain bets 5750.

Hero ???

Only read the title, fold

Flat pre, call river.

fold pre, sigh call river.

I'm sure I'm one of the tighter players from the blinds.  BUT:

I just can't see how 3betting with AT against a calling station pre is going to achieve anything other than inflating a pot that you have to play OOP.  Then true to form, you face a 5k bet on the end, rather than 1700 on the end.  If it were next hand, I'm fine with the 3bet on the button, but this hand, fold pre>>peel>>3bet.

As played, I don't think he checks back the flop with T8/98/88//87 type hands.  So on the river, he either got very lucky with KQ, is overplaying the shit out of a rivered jack, or is overplaying a hand "for value" that you otherwise beat.  Or he has air.  Or he is a luckbox and opened x-8, where "x" is greater than 3 or pips away.

Given his previous, I am looking to do a hero call, but a) I wish I'd kept the pot smaller and b) I like early nights.

fyp

I fold pre, why inflate a pot oop against a tricky villain-when we can just wait for a nice spot in position when he'll invariably spazz em all off.

On river it's a real puke spot, i bet flop anyway tbh, why are you slowplaying tptk on a wetish board?

Two straights hitting the river is obv spew and now it's kinda read dependant for me but more often than not with yr stack it's a fold.

I do this which probs indicates fold pre is the way to go.

Nope, you're completely correct.

Live pro's rarely fold pre so we're playing an average hand post flop OOP in an inflated pot, as you have said.

Not a profitable play.

was the villian dean morris if so go all in

cant see how this can be a bluff. cant think of much he vbets like this we beat.

Fold pre fold river

lolz villain sure sounds like me..goog read as usual mr rusuring..and yes 3b pre is not a good play.op to an early raise im folding pre

Not 3-betting this hand pre but doubt I'm folding it in a 50f.

But if I am ever 3-betting this hand I'm a million to be checking flop.

This is level 2 - I don't understand why people don't think this can be a bluff given that:

"has taken down a few sizeable pots uncontested by overbetting the river. He has overbet 4 or 5 times uncontested, whether ip or oop."

I'm calling this.

Sigh, if you have to 3 bet pre against a station (like others said, bad idea) you have to lead out on the flop.

Why check it to him on the flop?? Then you hit your set on the turn and decide to lead into him? why?

IF you check the flop, I would check the turn so he can bet into you.

I now call BTW, so I can go home and think about how badly I mangled the hand

just because someone has done something in the past dont level urself into thinking whenever they do it again its for the same reason. In this spot our hero has a really weak range, and as a result is pretty polarized (or certainly will be perceived to be) because I think in general people assume that passive lines re either a weak hand or a monster "slow-playing"

So why would a bluff ever bet really big when a bet of 40% pot will prolly get through the weak parts of our range nearly always. And what hands except for missed hearts is he bluffing with, and how many HH combo's does he realistically have OTT,  Kh Qh,  Qh Jh, and any  Ahrt Xh bet the flop IP almost always, and we have the  Th. so assuming he doesnt have stuff like  Qh 4h and  Jh 6h, its basically just  6h 8h,  5h 6h,  4h 5h and he wont always peel these to a 3bet imo.

Seemed like a fold at first, seems a pretty easy fold to me after a bit of thought.

You may have thought of that.  And it may be heavily weighted to you reaching your conclusion to fold.  But, I very much doubt the guy betting the river thought of that.

nut hand to turn into a bluff...... dunno if that works at luton in a £50er though.

All in pre

This seems awfully optimistic Alex.

Many thanks for all the replies people, great advice again. :)

Shoving the river crossed my mind, seriously.

I 3bet because the guy had been opening from UTG nearly every orbit. I struggle to fold a hand this strong with this in mind, I really don't like flatting oop, so I 3bet with fold equity in mind. Man I need to nit up.

I decided to check the flop. With such a draw heavy board, I would have hated a pretty difficult decision if he'd raised me.

So I bet the turn. I did this for value obv as he'd never have me on a T after checking the flop. When he only calls, I have three things on my mind as I wait for the river:

- He has jack shit and is floating hoping to hit a nasty card.
- He has a genuine draw, hoping to hit a J, 6 or a h.
- He already has a full house. If he has Tx then I felt he would almost certainly raise the turn big to prevent a river appearing.

Js. Balls.

Once I take the weak line and check, I felt villain could easily be balancing his value overbet range here with total air/missed draw.

But I felt his value range far outweighed the bluffs in his hand. Even though he's already overbet a few times and surely not had it everytime, I conceded that he's far more likely to have it in this spot than not, so I folded.

Please may I have some feedback on my though process? Should I have a different thought process at any/all points?

Fyi, very next orbit villain opens UTG, again.

BB (just moved to table, but is aware of villains tendencies) 3bets which villain flats, and proceeds to donk into villain on flop and turn which villain simply calls. BB now checks the river on quite a dry J high board, no real draws came in. Villain overbets, again. BB tanks then calls and is insta shown pocket Q's.

Ok. You said in yr prev post that- ' I 3bet because the guy had been opening from UTG nearly every orbit. I struggle to fold a hand this strong with this in mind,'

A10 is not that strong a hand. Certainly not in this position this deep. Folding pre is cert +ev.

You also said 'I decided to check the flop. With such a draw heavy board, I would have hated a pretty difficult decision if he'd raised me.'

Surely this explains why 3betting pre oop is such a leak. You hit top top and are concerned that on this wet a board you either might have to play for stacks or/and be behind.

You bet to protect your hand on this flop and for value from worse. Of course if we are raised or flatted we can assign our opponent a certain range and somewhat reevaluate but checking for pot control kinda outlines why we need to just fold pre.

Outa interest if he bets the flop what do you do? Check call and call/fold some turns/rivers? Aren't we overcomplicating a 50fo where we are still deep and should be looking to play in position versus this fishy oppo?

Surely if we play oop we need to have set plans for our hand post and pretty strict guidelines.

For example what exactly do we want to achieve with our 3b pre here? From your description of villain he's not folding pre and thus we inflate a pot oop with a mod mod hand.

So bar a kqj flop what on earth do we want to flop, i guess 101010 wldnt be bad nor aaa. But in reality such an inflation oop is always gonna cause tricky decisions v this oppo which we really dont need to have.

'So I bet the turn. I did this for value obv as he'd never have me on a T after checking the flop.'

Fineaments.


'Once I take the weak line and check, I felt villain could easily be balancing his value overbet range here with total air/missed draw.'

Obv but are you sure you aren't giving yr oppo huge credit for things like balancing and range etc, most of these players think balance means bank and range means golf.


'But I felt his value range far outweighed the bluffs in his hand. Even though he's already overbet a few times and surely not had it everytime, I conceded that he's far more likely to have it in this spot than not, so I folded.'

Agree.

Endaments.

God im drunk, sorry if this is bs. :)

too much levelling itt

Good post from a drunk man Nico!

lol @ calling the river. Pre is bad too.

I had a pretty long response to this typed out, but then I realised that it's completely unnecessary because this is really easy.

Fold pre because regardless of your correct identification that he's got a wide opening range so we can open our value range in response, our hand doesn't flop very well and is going to be very difficult to play profitably oop in an inflated pot. Fold pre.

If you get to the river somehow, check fold. What hand can he even have that he's bluffing with.

Fold pre Fold pre Fold pre Fold pre Fold pre Fold pre Fold pre Fold pre