blonde poker forum

It's been a long time since I properly played PLO and even though I have dabbled every now and again I haven't had a serious game for ages. Due to having not run too well on Sky lately and also Pokerstars offer on VIP levels for this month I thought I would give it a go for a couple of months and see if I can do any good at it.  I quite like the 250BB buy-in games although playing tiny limits compared to what most of the people on this forum will be use too.

In this game all the players have been playing fairly straight forward, when they bet they normally have something and not much bluffing going on. People are generally calling quite light as well and folding when they miss on the river.

I was playing a wide range of hands in position (or trying too) and trying to see lots of  flops. I have a double suited connected hand on the button so saw the flop as it was cheap, is this hand good enough to see the flop? Should I be considering the reverse implied odds that probably come with this hand maybe?

The turn is not an ideal card but when they check to me it makes me think I have the best hand so I make a pot-sized bet expecting them both to fold to be honest. I didn't expect somebody to shove it all-in (poor planning as I should know what I do in response to this).

However it does not seem likely that my opponent has been betting all the way along and then suddenly checks when he makes the nuts? Is this sensible thinking. The pot odds are very favorable as well. The villain in the hand has not really been out of line at all in the hour or so I have been at the table.

I don't think this can ever be a fold but thought I would post it up as I don't think I played the hand too well, what are the thoughts on how I played all the streets? As I said I am not really that good at PLO (trying to get better) so don't mind being told I played crap :-)

kerenskiy: posts the ante $0.02
u r rubbish: posts the ante $0.02
kerozin01: posts the ante $0.02
PokerJudge86: posts the ante $0.02
ALCAZAR42: posts the ante $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AAroddersAA [6h 8c Qc Th]
PokerJudge86: raises $0.40 to $0.50
ALCAZAR42: calls $0.40
AAroddersAA: calls $0.50
kerenskiy: calls $0.50
u r rubbish: calls $0.45
kerozin01: calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [7s Ad 9d]
u r rubbish: checks
kerozin01: bets $2
PokerJudge86: folds
ALCAZAR42: calls $2
AAroddersAA: calls $2
kerenskiy: folds
u r rubbish: folds
*** TURN *** [7s Ad 9d] [Ts]
kerozin01: checks
ALCAZAR42: checks
AAroddersAA: bets $7
kerozin01: raises $15.56 to $22.56 and is all-in
ALCAZAR42: folds
AAroddersAA: ??????

I dont play plo, but it seems like a fold pre to me. Your hand being double suited doesnt carry much weight here as whenever you get money in on 3 heart or 3 ckub boards its likely to be against better flushes. I guess that is reverse implied odds lol

Yeah, I am pretty sure my best line would have been fold pre.

However as I managed to get myself into the situation what is the best play on the flop?

By the time I get to the turn I am guessing I am stuck with it anyway and have to call, would I have been better checking in position or do I want to get the money in there. I thought I wanted to get it in but on reviewing the hand am not 100% sure that it is correct to do so.

Dont ask stato would be the best play

+1

I think we have to sigh call now. He can have same hand as you, a set, 2 pair with flush redraws etc. Basically the board is too wet to fold.

I wouldn't fold this hand pre at these stakes but I'd probably 3-bet it instead of call.

You said...

'However it does not seem likely that my opponent has been betting all the way along and then suddenly checks when he makes the nuts?'

If he does have the nuts and he bets $5.50-pot or something like that, he'll likely receive one or two calls and he's gonna hate loads of rivers and can easily be bluffed off the best hand/be made to call with the worst hand etc.

However, if he checks, thinking someone will bet a set / worse straight / flush draws - he can then move in both for value (obv) and to protect his hand. He avoids a tricky river decision this way. I think if I had J8 that would be my line a lot of the time.

I didn't think of the point that he can CRAI. That's a very good point. Doesn't change the fact I have to call but I have been pot betting in this situation - I will keep this in mind when playing this type of hand.

fwiw he didn't have J8 and I won the hand but still don't like how I played it overall. Might try 3betting these type of hands a bit more. At the moment I am really only 3-betting with rundowns which flop well (is that the right terminological?) and aces so this might not be wide enough. I have more been trying to see flops.

flat this hand OTB 100%.

flat call the flop 100%

Bet the turn when checked to, call when he goes all in.

agree with cos, thy certainly would chk J8, speshly on a board of this texture where there are smaller straights likely and tons of hands that can semi-bluff. by the same token they could also take this line with various draws because betting the turn again tightens everyone's range a bit to stronger made hands and draws whereas chking might open the other players range to include wider semi-bluffs.

Folding pre is so terrible, you're hand is really fkn good multiway and you're likely to have good visibility multiway vs weak players. Call>3b>>>>>>>>>>>>Fold. You have to call turn now for reasons Greekstein mentioned.

Robert/Cos

what circumstances would provoke you to 3bet this hand as opposed to flat pre-flop?

At PLO100 & 200 that I'm mostly playing atm I like 3-betting a hand like this with position because not only does it flop well but people play soooooooooooo bad in 3b pots (even the regs) and make so many mistakes / are very exploitable it's just hella profitable to make the pot big early I think.

Hmm I got lots to learn about this game.

Thanks for your help guy's

if you wanna do a teamviewer one time lmk.

Yeh as played, I dont mind the call pre especially in lower stakes where people dont have a clue this is a hand that could flop a dominating draw

any hand can be out-flopped by a dominating draw, it really doesn't damage our equity hardly at all. If we try to avoid starting hands that could be doninated on a flop then our range here basically starts at  Ad Kh Qd Th.

The flop equity of our hand is what we really want to be thinking about in setting our ranges for multi-way pots, hands that can flop very strong equity a decent amount of the time and reasonable equity often. Hands that are going to flop 35-45% equity a high % are going to be great to play IP, speshly in multiway pots where people are generally tighter and we have a wider range and high visibility.

rough example


Player,Equity,Wins Hi,Ties Hi
QT68:xxzz,     25.1587%,23.8913%,2.5531%
18%,             25.5805%,24.3205%,2.5531%
20%,             24.2874%,23.1540%,2.3000%
22%,             24.9734%,23.7812%,2.4210%

(http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad171/lildavefish/flopeq1.png)

we're flopping very well with this hand quite often, I think we're giving up a LOT of EV by not calling, would be a shamefully nitty fold

Good poast lully duva

Awesome, will install this (had it on my old PC which is broke) so will put it onto my new PC or laptop and IM you.

Thanks

The 2 people I ask for PLO advice have been the main 2 posters in this thread, so there's no point in me posting my view lol. Definately don't mind peeling this pre though. I play these stakes but with no antes/100 BBs, but I'd rather peel this at your game than in mine tbh

My knowledge is very limited but I would say that 100BB is a totally different game. I used to play that but like the 250BB game better although I am new to it.

There seems to be a lot more play involved and you can get involved with a wider range of hands pre and you can also make a few more plays and take quite a few pots down. I am sure Greekstein or one of the other better players than have posted in here can correct me if this is totally off.

Your right. I wasnt saying theyre the same, I was just saying Id peel this at 100BBs, so more inclined to do it at 250BBs w/antes.

Definately agree that you can make more plays etc in these games than 100BBs max, but against good players you can be put to really difficult decisions with marginal holdings. Also, as you obviously know, in PLO there are alot of coolers that you just cant fold (Eg top 2 + FD, Wrap+FD, Set+FD) that end up being huge coolers. Instead of being 200BB swings, theyre now 500BB.

Obviously both of these points dont matter in the slightest if you crush your stake :)

that's right