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Title: Probably simple and boring ruling question.. Post by: david3103 on August 09, 2011, 12:38:30 PM Cash table, hand arrives at river with two players left. Player 1 bets,
Player 2 mutters something which the dealer (new and inexperienced) hears as 'fold' - dealer gathers cards into the muck but before they are irretrievably mixed in Player 2 stops him. The cards have definitely hit the muck pile, but dealer still has his hand on them. Player 2 now manages to clearly say call and put his chips in. His hand is good enough to win the pot. Is it live? Player 2, btw, is drunk and consistently very very slow to act and annoying. He's also a calling station who has donated c£300 to the table in the past two hours, and will go on to donate more if he stays. I missed the actual moment when a ruling could have been sought from the supervisor but it seems that Player 1, who is a really good bloke, was discouraged from making a fuss by the others at the table who didn't want to see the fish leave. Title: Re: Probably simple and boring ruling question.. Post by: StuartHopkin on August 09, 2011, 12:44:28 PM If dealer is sure he heard fold, hand is dead
If dealer isn't sure hand is live In before people say that the muck is similar to the depths of satan's fiery ball sack. Title: Re: Probably simple and boring ruling question.. Post by: Boba Fett on August 09, 2011, 12:46:57 PM If its dealer error (Somebody can confirm he didnt say fold) and the cards are clearly retrievable I think they are live. No advantage has been gained by the player wanting to call.
Title: Re: Probably simple and boring ruling question.. Post by: Skippy on August 09, 2011, 12:49:44 PM Technically his hand's dead, but I'd let him off since I'm a big softy, and dealers shouldn't go mucking live hands. He doesn't sound sophisticated enough to be using it as an angle (i.e. dealer semi-mucks, bettor fist-pump-happy-dances, folder retrieves hand and calls).
Title: Re: Probably simple and boring ruling question.. Post by: zerofive on August 09, 2011, 02:52:14 PM Depends on the casino. Most places will rule that if a hand is "distinguishable from the muck" then the hand is live, and also that verbal is binding ie "fold" means the hand is no longer live. It is the responsibility of the other players at the table to help distinguish in a situation like this. In this case it sounds like the hand should be live.
Title: Re: Probably simple and boring ruling question.. Post by: JK on August 09, 2011, 07:03:44 PM As Sean pointed out, if the cards are easily identifiable and retrievable from the muck, then the hand is still live. If the dealer is unsure as to wether or not he heard "fold", then the hand is live and the situation can be put to dealer error and fairness of the game. However, if the dealer is sure, then his word is final and hands dead.
With most rulings, fairness of the game is the over-riding factor tbh |