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Community Forums => Betting Tips and Sport Discussion => Topic started by: Woodsey on September 16, 2011, 07:41:28 PM



Title: Johan Blake!
Post by: Woodsey on September 16, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
Anyone just see that! 19.26 in the 200 metres! Fucking hell, 2nd fastest 200m ever, beat Michael Johnson's old record time.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Josedinho on September 16, 2011, 08:15:13 PM
Yeh amazing. Jamaica rule sprinting at the mo.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 16, 2011, 08:53:01 PM
If that clocking is correct (allowing for wind etc.) then it's just symptomatic of what's wrong with athletics at elite level. The Jamaican's are quite obviously as chemically enhanced as any group of international athletes fin the history of the sport. To think that MJ would be eating dust from Blake is too too silly! They've probably got 12yr olds in a lab who'd walk into our 4X100 squad. Carl Lewis will be at home griding his teeth!


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: kukushkin88 on September 16, 2011, 09:01:55 PM
If that clocking is correct (allowing for wind etc.) then it's just symptomatic of what's wrong with athletics at elite level. The Jamaican's are quite obviously as chemically enhanced as any group of international athletes fin the history of the sport. To think that MJ would be eating dust from Blake is too too silly! They've probably got 12yr olds in a lab who'd walk into our 4X100 squad. Carl Lewis will be at home griding his teeth!

lol, this is just silly. Standards in all sports are improving all the time. MJ was incredible but there will come a time when all elite athletes are running faster than he could. Chemically enhanced?? I´m not sure I understand. You mean good nutrition?


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: AndrewT on September 16, 2011, 09:41:53 PM
He was losing with 80m to go - quite bonkers to run that time.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzJr9Prvus8


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: scotty2hatty on September 17, 2011, 10:37:57 AM
Ridiculous


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 17, 2011, 10:43:43 AM
If that clocking is correct (allowing for wind etc.) then it's just symptomatic of what's wrong with athletics at elite level. The Jamaican's are quite obviously as chemically enhanced as any group of international athletes fin the history of the sport. To think that MJ would be eating dust from Blake is too too silly! They've probably got 12yr olds in a lab who'd walk into our 4X100 squad. Carl Lewis will be at home griding his teeth!

lol, this is just silly. Standards in all sports are improving all the time. MJ was incredible but there will come a time when all elite athletes are running faster than he could. Chemically enhanced?? I´m not sure I understand. You mean good nutrition?

Silly? I don't think so. The evidence speaks for itself when u look through the all-time list of sprinters and the times posted and then delete the ones who've been guilty of cheating. The Jamaican's (along with the Chinese) have a notoriously lame dope testing programme.

I'm guessin  u'd have said the same prior to the expose involving the likes of Drummond/Mitchell/Gatlin/Montgomery/ and half a dozen second string Jamaicans (men and women). I'm not naive enough to expect athletes to perform clean but that doesn't mean I have to swallow the garbage explanations they give for 'great' performances surrounding the likes of Marion Jones (ie, 'better' training regimes and faster tracks...I'm guessin u'd have said my attitudes to Marion Jones' performances were 'silly' too!).

The Jamaican atheletes have cut their PB's in just the same fashion that Flo Jo did...one year they're an also-ran the next they're chopping over half a second off their PB's and breaking world records for fun.

IMO anyone who genuinely believes that Bolt et al are clean is in need of a reality check.




Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Dubai on September 17, 2011, 10:53:12 AM
Take the time with a pinch of salt- Walter Dix ain't in 19.53 shape


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 17, 2011, 10:59:11 AM
I hear ya, we've had faulty timings in the past which is why I questioned it in my first reply. Dix is no Tyson Gay!


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Dubai on September 17, 2011, 11:04:38 AM
Dix is now 4th fastest 200m runner ever!


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 17, 2011, 11:27:50 AM
haha when my brother told me the time he ran I had to laugh...I'd still back Fredricks, MJ, Crawford, Lewis, Marsh, Greene, Boldon and a whole bunch of others against Dix!! Athletics is my favourite sport but the thing's been seriously corrupted from way back!!


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: kukushkin88 on September 17, 2011, 11:33:59 AM
If that clocking is correct (allowing for wind etc.) then it's just symptomatic of what's wrong with athletics at elite level. The Jamaican's are quite obviously as chemically enhanced as any group of international athletes fin the history of the sport. To think that MJ would be eating dust from Blake is too too silly! They've probably got 12yr olds in a lab who'd walk into our 4X100 squad. Carl Lewis will be at home griding his teeth!

lol, this is just silly. Standards in all sports are improving all the time. MJ was incredible but there will come a time when all elite athletes are running faster than he could. Chemically enhanced?? I´m not sure I understand. You mean good nutrition?

Silly? I don't think so. The evidence speaks for itself when u look through the all-time list of sprinters and the times posted and then delete the ones who've been guilty of cheating. The Jamaican's (along with the Chinese) have a notoriously lame dope testing programme.

I'm guessin  u'd have said the same prior to the expose involving the likes of Drummond/Mitchell/Gatlin/Montgomery/ and half a dozen second string Jamaicans (men and women). I'm not naive enough to expect athletes to perform clean but that doesn't mean I have to swallow the garbage explanations they give for 'great' performances surrounding the likes of Marion Jones (ie, 'better' training regimes and faster tracks...I'm guessin u'd have said my attitudes to Marion Jones' performances were 'silly' too!).

The Jamaican atheletes have cut their PB's in just the same fashion that Flo Jo did...one year they're an also-ran the next they're chopping over half a second off their PB's and breaking world records for fun.

IMO anyone who genuinely believes that Bolt et al are clean is in need of a reality check.




Not a great post from me last night and I´m sure you have a greater knowledge of athletics than I do but surely we should expect average performance year on year to improve in all sports.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: boldie on September 17, 2011, 11:37:42 AM
Bolt is clean, surely if there is one athlete who is clean it has to be Bolt?


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 17, 2011, 05:09:17 PM
Bolt clean? Not a chance IMO...nothing abot his performances/improvement looks clean (Assuming he's clean, what time would he run 'dirty' bearing in mind so many of the top times have been discredited over the years,,,times he's already made look shockingly ordinary!)...best thing he can do is rinse the game for the next Olympics and World Champs then retire before he messes up his masking routine or get grassed on like Marion Jones.

I hope he is clean BUT I can't bring myself to really believe it. In a 'bullet to the brain test' if I was wrong in answering 'clean' v 'dirty' I'd have to say he was dirty (along with the majority of elite performers...sad but that's where my vote would be goin.) Just my opinion after seeing the sport I LOVE badly smeared by a whole host of 'all time greats'.



Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Longines on September 17, 2011, 05:41:34 PM
Bolt clean? Not a chance IMO...nothing abot his performances/improvement looks clean

He was running 20.13 when 16 years old and 19.93 when he was 18. Given those times and his progression since, when would you estimate he started taking drugs?


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Alverton on September 17, 2011, 06:12:37 PM
Can we not just admire the performance, instead of an immediate conclusion that they must be jacked up?  I hate to say it but when Bolt crushed Beijing my first thought was 'I wonder when he'll get found out' and I hated being that cynical.  

Also wasnt there a strong wind behind them in the str?  Had to have knocked off a few 10ths.  I thought Oscar Pistorius mentioned something after the 400, that he couldnt believe they were going so hard into the wind @ the start?  Wasnt the times for all the events fast, near sb's, pb's?


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: ACE2M on September 21, 2011, 12:40:31 PM
from nowhere a load of sprinters from a small country suddenly become the best the world has ever seen. you got to be high not to jump to some conclusion.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: redarmi on September 21, 2011, 01:47:05 PM
from nowhere a load of sprinters from a small country suddenly become the best the world has ever seen. you got to be high not to jump to some conclusion.

I have no idea whether the current crop of athletes from Jamaica are jacked up or not but the comment above is largely incorrect.  Jamaicans, and, small Caribbean nations in general have a long histopry of doing well at sprint events (400m and below) and long jump too.  Furthermore a great deal of very good athletes from other countries have Jamaican parentage yet have had very little or nothing to do with their athletics federation so I think it is a bit more complicated than them simply using drugs.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: ACE2M on September 21, 2011, 03:31:04 PM
from nowhere a load of sprinters from a small country suddenly become the best the world has ever seen. you got to be high not to jump to some conclusion.

I have no idea whether the current crop of athletes from Jamaica are jacked up or not but the comment above is largely incorrect.  Jamaicans, and, small Caribbean nations in general have a long histopry of doing well at sprint events (400m and below) and long jump too.  Furthermore a great deal of very good athletes from other countries have Jamaican parentage yet have had very little or nothing to do with their athletics federation so I think it is a bit more complicated than them simply using drugs.

Name 4 - off the top of my head i can name 3 of real notable quality. Current athletes from jamaica alone - i can name 6 or 7 world beaters.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: redarmi on September 21, 2011, 05:07:08 PM
I can name three gold medalists since i have followed athletics - Merlene Ottey, Deon Hemmings and Veronica campbell.  In the same period Linford Christie, Kelly Holmes won with two Jamaican parents and Ato Boldon and Kim Collins both won titles from the Caribbean.  Since 1984 Jamaica has won 11 medals in relays alone in the Olympics and that is depite only winning two medals in last two games when they have been clearly the best in the world.  Like I said I don't have a view on whether they are taking drugs or not.  They may well be but I think physicality has a lot to do with it and possibly diet.  Carribean nations and those with parentage from the Caribbean have long overperformed in sport and not just athletics.  They are massively overrepresented in football, basketball, cricket....pretty much every sport that is widely played in the region.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: redarmi on September 21, 2011, 05:24:54 PM
Just done a bit more research into this.  The following athletes from recent years were all born in Jamaica but didn't represent Jamaica: Linford Christie,  Tessa Sanderson, Donovan Bailey, Sanya Richards, Ben Johnson (heehee), Germain Mason and Angella Taylor.  All won gold medals at worlds except Mason who won a silver and Taylor who won a couple of commonwealth golds.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 22, 2011, 02:28:47 AM
Linford was done for cheating as was Ottey...sometimes the doped athletes get out before they're caught (Flo-Jo), sometimes their federations cover up their positive tests (Carl lewis) and sometimes they're so stupid they believe they'll never get caught and can just carry on selling people the bs line about 'better training' and 'natural talent' till they get caught (Marion Jones, Ben Johnson, Butch Reynolds...this list is endless!).

That's not to say that Jamaica have suddenly produced a whole crop of men AND women (rather than a spattering of talented individuals like Ray Stewart) who are clean in a very 'dirty era'. Anyone who believes the sport is clean at the top level is living in a dreamworld.

Given the fact so many athletes worldwide have been proven cheats it's difficult not to be sceptical about these miracle performances. I hope Bolt gets out before he gets caught if he is cheating (which I don't think is that big an 'if'...).

We should be setting an example on this front. The likes of Chambers and Ohurugu who both cheated (one messed up his screening agent so failed a test, the other dodged the testers) should be barred from competing for Britain at every champs (Olympic and Worlds) instead of taking the limelight and robbing clean athletes....Chambers robbed many a title from Jason Gardner and god knows how much in sponsorship deals and Ohurugu denied Nicola Sanders a gold medal at the World Champs.



Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Micko on September 22, 2011, 12:22:31 PM
BrumBilly what about Michael Johnson, would you include him in drug cheating when he competed? It's just when i watch coverage he sounds so against drug cheats and has't much time for them.

He was an amazing athlete so he prob was cheating.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: Nico29 on September 22, 2011, 04:06:31 PM
Linford was done for cheating as was Ottey...sometimes the doped athletes get out before they're caught (Flo-Jo), sometimes their federations cover up their positive tests (Carl lewis) and sometimes they're so stupid they believe they'll never get caught and can just carry on selling people the bs line about 'better training' and 'natural talent' till they get caught (Marion Jones, Ben Johnson, Butch Reynolds...this list is endless!).

That's not to say that Jamaica have suddenly produced a whole crop of men AND women (rather than a spattering of talented individuals like Ray Stewart) who are clean in a very 'dirty era'. Anyone who believes the sport is clean at the top level is living in a dreamworld.

Given the fact so many athletes worldwide have been proven cheats it's difficult not to be sceptical about these miracle performances. I hope Bolt gets out before he gets caught if he is cheating (which I don't think is that big an 'if'...).

We should be setting an example on this front. The likes of Chambers and Ohurugu who both cheated (one messed up his screening agent so failed a test, the other dodged the testers) should be barred from competing for Britain at every champs (Olympic and Worlds) instead of taking the limelight and robbing clean athletes....Chambers robbed many a title from Jason Gardner and god knows how much in sponsorship deals and Ohurugu denied Nicola Sanders a gold medal at the World Champs.



While you write well and make some half decent points, i feel your statements are largely entirely conjecture and libellous at that. I gen don't believe bolt is on drugs and wish ppl wldnt sling prev examples and wishy washy stats at the guy. If you think everyone is on drugs in the sport i really don't understand why you still proclaim it to be your favourite sport. I've 100m final tickets for the olympics-sick brag-and cannot wait to see what i consider to be the greatest event in sport.


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: BrumBilly on September 22, 2011, 06:59:11 PM
I do think we've seen some exceptional athletes down the years who were/are clean but some athletes/performances just stink to high heaven. Michael Johnson is one of the greatest athletes of all time and he was very vocal during his career about drug abuse in the sport and distanced himself from cheats like Butch Reynolds (didn't want to run on same relay team...if memory serves...unlike athletes who protest against 'foreign' cheats like the Brit athletes who made a show of themselves while Yegerova ran...yet are quiet of a mouse when the dirty athlete is wearing the same club/country vest).

I hope Bolt is clean...if he's one of the cheats (of which there are many...Ben Johnson was right when he said he wasn't alone in 'that race') then I hope he retires soon and doesn't get caught. I just wouldn't bet on it.

That said, I still LOVE watching the sport (grew up watching Coe and Ovette so spoiled as a kid re British success) Footballers 'cheat' in every match but we still watch.

Re your tickets, I'm VERY jealous. Hope you witness one of the great 100m finals including a head to head between a fit Bolt v Gay.

Enjoy!


Title: Re: Johan Blake!
Post by: redarmi on September 22, 2011, 07:03:59 PM
To be fair there have been more than a handful of drugs cheats who have proclaimed a hatred for cheats before they got caught.  Linford Christie being a good example.