blonde poker forum

1) Cliffs: I min button with Ad 4d, maniac in BB who is a winner @ abi $500 tourneys 3bets playing 29.4 bigs, I jam. OK?

PokerStars Game #68059312970: Tournament #2011090060, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVIII (6000/12000) - 2011/09/26 1:30:46 WET [2011/09/25 20:30:46 ET]
Table '2011090060 66' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: PikkuHUMPPA (1627833 in chips)
Seat 2: X-Front (516735 in chips)
Seat 3: 20alex430 (631504 in chips)
Seat 4: 1BIG-CHEEESE (60927 in chips)
Seat 5: Iftarii (352685 in chips)
Seat 6: Sharkomaha (618756 in chips)
Seat 7: VM47 (683444 in chips)
Seat 8: csacsi111 (875925 in chips)
Seat 9: wanderleiii (411804 in chips)
PikkuHUMPPA: posts the ante 1500
X-Front: posts the ante 1500
20alex430: posts the ante 1500
1BIG-CHEEESE: posts the ante 1500
Iftarii: posts the ante 1500
Sharkomaha: posts the ante 1500
VM47: posts the ante 1500
csacsi111: posts the ante 1500
wanderleiii: posts the ante 1500
1BIG-CHEEESE: posts small blind 6000
Iftarii: posts big blind 12000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 20alex430 [4d Ad]
Sharkomaha: folds
VM47: folds
csacsi111: folds
wanderleiii: folds
PikkuHUMPPA: folds
X-Front: folds
20alex430: raises 12000 to 24000
1BIG-CHEEESE: folds
Iftarii: raises 37050 to 61050
20alex430: raises 568954 to 630004 and is all-in

2) Cliffs: Button mins, I shove 23.8 bbs from the sb with K8 suited. OK?

PokerStars Game #68059516781: Tournament #2011090060, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVIII (6000/12000) - 2011/09/26 1:37:15 WET [2011/09/25 20:37:15 ET]
Table '2011090060 66' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: PikkuHUMPPA (1629333 in chips)
Seat 2: X-Front (675235 in chips)
Seat 3: 20alex430 (287819 in chips)
Seat 4: 1BIG-CHEEESE (112854 in chips)
Seat 5: Iftarii (552170 in chips)
Seat 6: Sharkomaha (588756 in chips)
Seat 7: VM47 (646517 in chips)
Seat 8: csacsi111 (845925 in chips)
Seat 9: wanderleiii (441004 in chips)
PikkuHUMPPA: posts the ante 1500
X-Front: posts the ante 1500
20alex430: posts the ante 1500
1BIG-CHEEESE: posts the ante 1500
Iftarii: posts the ante 1500
Sharkomaha: posts the ante 1500
VM47: posts the ante 1500
csacsi111: posts the ante 1500
wanderleiii: posts the ante 1500
20alex430: posts small blind 6000
1BIG-CHEEESE: posts big blind 12000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 20alex430 [Ks 8s]
Iftarii: folds
Sharkomaha: folds
VM47: folds
csacsi111: folds
wanderleiii: folds
PikkuHUMPPA: folds
X-Front: raises 12000 to 24000
20alex430: raises 262319 to 286319 and is all-in

Think both are spewy. Like the first play better than the second tho

Actually don't think you're deep enough in first hand.

Just fold both

For 2) If he calls with the following ranges, we have 33.7% equity when called, and therefore need him to fold 60% of the time.

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    33.708%     33.11%    00.60%          77109935      1387425.50   { Ks8s }
Hand 1:    66.292%     65.70%    00.60%         152988558      1387425.50   { 77+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }

77+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo is 11.5% of the range, so he needs to be opening his button >28.5% of the time. Surely a reasonable assumption?

Would he call wider do you think?

For 1) If he calls with the following ranges, we have 32.9% equity when called, and therefore need him to fold 50% of the time.

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    32.961%     30.84%    02.12%          49639276      3414068.50   { Ad4d }
Hand 1:    67.039%     64.92%    02.12%         104489163      3414068.50   { 88+, A9s+, KQs, ATo+ }

He probably isn't 3b/folding 50% of the time here is he...

IMO i think A) is a fold as there are better spots and agree with George on the deep comment

B) I think is fine and after speaking with you at the last deepstack about shove ranges and what Pleno had given me that says you can shove optimally here  22+ K2s+ K6o Q8o+ even as wide as 97o.

Would be interested to see what others say though...

Don't really like either.  Both could be +EV plays (certainly it is probably close) but you are deep enough to wait for better spots in both cases and pushing too many thin edges in tourneys when you have a skill edge isn't +EV in itself if that makes sense.

think both are just about fine. would prefer the first one to be a little deeper but meh its iftari the man likes to 3bet. 2nd one i do not recognise SN doubt the guy is going to call with kj/kq and a8/a9 tbh...unless he just saw u 4bet shove a4s that will change his calling range vs u i guess

x-front won it outright.

1 is whatever 2 is good with no history or anything other than you have 20bbs being the reason he can open

marv

I definitely like the first hand if your image is ok. You have an active 3 bettor that you cover, fold equity, soooted cards and one entire blocker.

like first, would fodl 2nd.

Ditto to the others...

I did notice there are only 7 minutes between hand 1 and hand 2... were any other hands (wtsd or not) played in that time?

Which others? Everybody is saying something different. :P

Agree with muckthenuts about hand 1. Seems like you might get called wider in hand 2, especially if it looks like you're spewing and he's seen you shove A4.

in hand 10 vs Iftari who's pretty dam good at holdem's you can expect to get called not far off perfect (prolly a little tighter than perfect given you are assumed unknown to him)

not saying its not a fine shove, just saying you need to give these moves extra thought when your likely to be vs pretty accurate calling ranges

Just had a skype discussion group and these two hands came up. A few interesting things that arose were

1) Peeling the 3b with the A4dd?

2) Who clicks back the K8ss to like 52k then folds to a shove. We're jjjjjjust deep enough to 3b fold appparently. Looks ridic strong too.

I peel hand 1  occasionally and it is villain dependant. I'm Playing 2012 poker right now so kept it to myself!

peeling hand 1 is terrible IMO, but everyone plays differently.

Hand 2 > hand 1.

Like bram said, iftari does like to 3bet, but in such an obvious spot (him 3betting from the bb vs the button) i think he is 3b/calling a larger % of the time than you'd think.

Agree and would be reluctant to open the button really wide since he's gonna 3ball so often but in this spot A4s is a little too strong imo not to go four to the inevitable three. 

how about 4b/call instead of 4bjam in hand 1, he is a big mtt player and probs thinks ur a noob (no offence but anybody he doesnt necesarily know and makes a retaredly strong 4b he may fold some hands he initially planned to call ur jam with.

Firstly hate a peel with yr stack and the a4std, meh i 4b in his eye too here.

Secondly think 3b folding from 23bbs is a pretty bad equity spew, agree with others that dynamic at table is v important here, if villain has seen the a4hand play out i may nit up in this spot. Tbh i don't jam often in this kind of spot and maybe i should-interesting one.

yeah i like this line, if he doesnt know, you, he could be planning to call a jam/fold to a click. Winner.

hand 2, i kinda like fold